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Trying to Turn Around a Nay-Sayer: Partial SuccessLast week Steven DiTullio of openloungecast.com posted a piece about his attempt to watch and enjoy MST3K (he watched “Beast of Yucca Flats” ) but he really didn’t enjoy it.
After the piece ran, I tweeted him that maybe “Beast” wasn’t the best choice for a newbie. The movie can be a bit of a slog when you’re thrown into it. He tweeted me back asking for suggestions for better movies. I suggested a Joel ep — “Teenagers from Outer Space” — and Mike ep — “Werewolf”. He watched them, and his overall feelings toward the show are better, but I still don’t know if we’ve created a new fan. Well, I tried. 30 Replies to “Trying to Turn Around a Nay-Sayer: Partial Success”Commenting at Satellite News
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You gave it a good try, but sad to say I don’t think he will be turning down his lights any time soon.
The wrong people won’t get it.
Rice, for dinner? This particular person don’t get it. I am glad he gave it a shot though.
Didn’t like ‘The Beast of Yucca Flats”?! ‘Flag on the Moon.
A man runs. Someone shoots at him; a thin plot, endlessly restated.’
Oh for cryin out loud! I don’t know; I don’t think anyone who didn’t like this episode would like any of them. This one is one of my personal favorites.
“Vacation time. Some folks go east, some go west. ‘heck, some burrow straight down'”
You can’t point anyone to the particular episode that will get them into MST3K. Because the episode that sucks someone in is whichever episode has an extremely obscure reference that one particular person knows. You certainly can’t choose that episode for a stranger, and you probably don’t even know what episode it’s going to be for your best friend. The hook is set when suddenly the voice of Crow, Tom, Joel or Mike is talking just to you! And suddenly you’re there with them, stuck on the Satellite of Love, trying to choke down a god awful movie along with your popcorn. It might take several attempts, so you need a certain tolerance for campy scifi and bad movies to get there. And it helps to have those movies under your belt because the show self references all the time, and that, too, makes you feel like you’re in on the joke. A coworker originally got me watching. But I didn’t even sit down and watch a full episode, I just stopped from time to time channel flipping, and I thought, “Who cares?” But there wasn’t anything on, so I watched a little more and a little more, and eventually I was hit by that moment! And later in life when I was showing the show to my husband, he at first thought it was just dumb to watch a bad movie. But he soon fell to their quirky charms, and he absolutely adores the show. We’ve seen Rifftrax Live and still try to get our fix any way we can, but it will never be quite the same as that not too distant future…
I would always avoid a film with a narrator for someone’s first time. I expect that if someone isn’t familiar with Mike/Joel/Tom/Crow’s voice, it would just be confusing for them trying to figure out which is the narrator and which is the riffing. Especially in a film like BEAST OF YUCCA FLATS where the narration is bizarre and random…
Wow, he was pretty critical of Joel on that second piece.
Maybe some people’s brain can’t concentrate on the movie and the riffs being made at the same time? It’s possible..sad,really. :giggle:
The problem with this is I wouldn’t have chosen any of those episodes as introductory. I don’t care for Werewolf (outside of the end credits), and Teenagers From Outer Space just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But one man’s MST trash… With over 200 episodes, it’s near impossible to find the correct intro ep. You just never know what’s going to grab someone, no matter how much you think you know their tastes and no matter how much you love particular episodes. I tried Master Ninja, Fugitive Alien, Yucca Flats (yeah, I know I said I wouldn’t try that one), Warrior of the Lost World, Mitchell and Lost Continent to try to get my friend into the show. Mild degree of success with Swamp Diamonds. Then, Friday night, finally, success. And with what flick? Manos. Obscure joke he got: Marilyn Quail. I’ve never seen someone laugh so hard at the movie portions. He’s still unsure about the host segs, but that movie killed. And here I thought he’d be bored. So if at first you don’t succeed, try try again. And if that fails? Take them to a live Cinematic Titanic show. Works every time.
The right people will get it.
I never thought the riffing for TfOS was nearly up to the potential of the rich material. I hardly ever watch it.
Since I didn’t get Comedy Central back then, I guess it was the early Rhino releases were what got me hooked. Pod People or The Amazing Colossal Man have a stand-alone quality that I’d be confident showing to a newbie. Eegah is one of my faves, but I think it’s the kind of episode that you show to someone who “kinda” likes the show to win them over completely.
1. If you read the first linked article you’ll learn that the writer was already familiar with the show from his youth, having watched it with his dad, on TV. Including a pic of Jim Henson w/ Kermit was strange as I’ve never made that connection, only having seen the show as an adult.
2. He still likes the “house” segments with the robots and finds the theater segments intermittently funny but mostly annoying. He mainly criticizes the show for overstaying it’s premise and being a product of its time: i.e., in the early years of cable, networks had time-slots to fill. While I don’t disagree that timing had a lot to do with MST’s success, this is the most reductive assessment of its charms I’ve ever heard.
3. DeTullio gave it a fair shot, and wrote well about his experiences as a non-fan. At least he somewhat enjoyed Werewolf… I just find his whole argument about the show being “good for it’s time but not for ours now” kind of troubling. He even goes into the whole “I was trying to enjoy the movie” thing during Teenagers. And I can see how a modern critic would appreciate Mike as host more than Joel.
But good try, Sampo. An illuminating glimpse into how other people see the show. I don’t think ANY episode could turn this guy around, with all his daddy/puppet/ADHD issues…
I guessing that enjoying bad movies for their, ahem, charm helps in “getting” the show. Too bad cuz he’s missing a lot of great humor.
You know, any episode should be a good entry one. I mean, when it was on tv you could have seen almost any episode first, purely at random.
Makes me wonder, has anyone subjected a newbie to The Crawling Eye as a starting place? For that matter, would anyone be sick enough to start a newbie with K04? At that point, you’d become an honorary Mad.
Isn’t it LAW by now that you always start a virgin newbie with “Day the Earth Froze”–Or, failing that, if all you have are legal Shout disks, “Magic Voyage of Sinbad”?…What happened to tradition?
(And even if you are Mike-zombie enough to start there, it’s the Movie. ALWAYS the Movie. Or Batwoman, if you want to eventually lead him back to the Joel episodes.)
The problem seems to be that he Doesn’t Get It, and seems to be trying to watch the movie without the “interruptions”. (He did like the shorts, after all.) Batwoman would be one best way of curing him of that.
It’s all about first impressions–The Anime fans already have enough trouble over on the other boards with curious fans being told “Go watch Akira!”…The recovery therapy can take years and still not be effective, but it’s the same as being told to watch Werewolf AND Yucca Flats. :(
I loved how he kept referring to “Crow” as “Croooow” as if that’s is how his name is actually spelled.
Doesn’t bother me at all he doesn’t care for MST. He gave it a fair shake and things just didn’t click. It happens. He explained his points well without being too harsh.
If anything, he actually expressed some genuine regret in that he didn’t get more into the show earlier in life. He’s not a fan, but he’s clearly not a hater.
@ #2: Maybe it was EXTREEEEME RICE!
But probably not.
boy oh boy, EricJ! i find your ridiculous obsession with dismissing Mike-era MST3K in every comment you post endlessly amusing! please, do keep it up!
When I first saw the show many years ago I didn’t like it much either, but it grew on me over time. I don’t know if he has the patience to give it time.
“Beast of Yucca Flats” is definitely not a good first time episode, but I don’t think “Teenagers From Outer Space” or “Werewolf” are very good ones either. I love both of those episodes, but if I was going to try to win someone over to MST, especially if they already had an experience with a dreadful movie like “Beast of Yucca Flats”, I’d go with a couple of great episodes that also have movies that are a little more fun, or at least tolerable on their own. I’d have recommended “Catalina Caper” or “Santa Claus Conquers The Martians” for Joel episodes, and “Space Mutiny” or “Prince of Space” for Mike episodes.
Starting off with “Beast of Yucca Flats” was not a smart movie. Coleman Francis movies are not newbies. He should have started off with one of the Gameras and “The Amazing Colossal Man” for Joel and then “Invasion USA” and “Teenage Crimewave” for Mike. That’s what I’d do if I was introducing someone to the show. And why did he say was trying to “enjoy the movie” while he was watching the episode? There’s a reason why the movie is getting ripped a new one! They’re not enjoyable!!
Someone people just don’t have a sense of humor. Don’t worry Sampo, he’s just jealous that we have an awesome show that still has a very rapid fanbase.
I personally think that, if you’re using Beast of Yucca Flats as an introductory episode, that you should limit it to the shorts to begin with (especially Progress Island U.S.A.). The shorts are, to me, the best way to show off what MST3K is all about. I know it can be difficult to have someone watch a program (that they may not even like) for 2 hours, but if you show them the shorts, they may find it more interesting.
Having said that, you gave it your best shot.
As the writer of the article, all I have to say is…what’s wrong with rice for dinner?
All joking aside I wanted to jump in here and say thank you to Sampo for the suggestions. I genuinely did have fun watching these episodes and trying to get more into the show. I will admit that by the end of Werewolf I was wondering if I had more episodes to watch maybe I’d get into it more. Alas though, as Finnias said in #12 I don’t know if my attention span which hasn’t evolved much past the age of 7 would be able to handle watching more 90 min episodes. I am wondering what it would be like to get a group going, watch an episode or two, and just try to really get into it and enjoy the show. I think if nothing else it would make for an interesting experience.
Again, thanks for the suggestions and the opportunity, I did have a lot of fun.
hmmmm…. which movies to start a newbie with? For Joel, I’d start with “Lost Continent”, and for Mike, I’d go with “The Leech Woman”. I think these both show off the good side of their talents. :)
#20
Excellent suggestions, although for a critic/reviewer/movie buff
type Overdrawn at the Memory Bank might work, or one of my personal
favorites (Time Chasers) since it has a conventional scifi plot and
has an interesting student film feel to it, also a rather jaundiced view
of the citizens and officials of New England towns.
#23 OpenLoungeSteve: If it’s your attention span you have a problem with, you can always head over to Jim Mallon’s “official” MST3K.com site and get just bits and pieces of the show: some of the best riffs from some of the episodes, and some of the best host segs as well. Also, if any DVD’s are still available of just the shorts (or if you can find just the shorts online), you might have a better experience with your style of humor.
I like the whole package myself (package, heh), I was hooked from the first time I saw it, but if that’s not your thing, getting just the best lines might help in your appreciation of the show.
BTW, an ep I’d start a newb with is Magic Voyage of Sinbad.
Or, I Accuse My Parents, or Pod People.
He should watch “Master Ninja” (Joel) & “Angel’s Revenge” (Mike). I think he’d change his mind fully after those two episodes.
Personally, I’ve run into this situation a few times over the years. I have had several friends swear up and down that MST3k is the stupidest thing they’ve ever been forced to watch. Seeing my downcast face, they agreed to give it another go if I could recommend (and watch with them) a “good” episode.
In every case, I’ve found that “Mitchell” and “MST3k: The Movie” were the ones that brought them into the fold. (Obvious choices, maybe. But I want them to LIKE the show. And it gives a nice balance between Joel and Mike.) Then, to finish the conversion, I’ll go through the shorts and then probably “Manos.” After that, they start grabbing episodes to watch on their own. Although, I stop them from grabbing some of them… regardless of how much I love the show, not every episode is gold.
It is terribly important on which episodes a new viewer watches first, a point I think we’ve all been making. If someone doesn’t like MST3k after a does of “Mitchell” or “Manos,” I don’t think there’s any hope.
I don’t know about the notion that any episode is a good primer. Sidehackers, for one, left a bad taste in my mouth as an established fan, so a newcomer is bound to hate it.
So Steve, even though some of the guys here would declare me a heretic for saying it, try with more of the later Sci-Fi era episodes. It’s not that they’re necessarily “dumbed down,” but the volume and the sharpness of jokes tends to be much higher in several of them. In addition to Werewolf, try Space Mutiny, Overdrawn at the Memory Bank, The Final Sacrifice and Hobgoblins. No wait, skip Hobgoblins for now; you’ll need to build up a pain threshold before tackling that one.
Oh, and nothing’s wrong with having rice for dinner. Just put something on it first.