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Weekend Discussion Thread: Which Is the Best of the Russo-Finnish Quartet?Coming off this week’s episode guide entry, we’ve now done all four of the Russo-Finnish movies: “DAY THE EARTH FROZE,” “SINBAD,” “SWORD AND THE DRAGON” and “JACK FROST.” So let’s settle this once and for all: Which is the best all-around episode? Show your work! My answer may surprise you: I’m gonna go with “Sinbad.” Yes, “DTEF” has a lot going for it (including a great short), but Sinbad is just such a strong episode and that “city council” sketch is an all-time favorite of mine. What’s your pick? 96 Replies to “Weekend Discussion Thread: Which Is the Best of the Russo-Finnish Quartet?”Commenting at Satellite News
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I guess I’d go with The Day the Earth Froze if only because it contains my favorite, and perhaps the most subtle, naughty riff. Immediately after Lemminkainen, Ilmarinen, and the witch Louhi leave the screen after one scene you hear Servo say, “Whoa, that is cold!”
I laugh every time.
“Sinbad” first, followed closely by “Jack Frost”.
Jack Frost, hands down.
If ShoutFactory releases a Russo-Finnish box set, I’d buy that on the spot.
“I also thought Jack Frost was the weakest of the four, and don’t understand all the votes for it. Several posters have said they’re mainly into the Sci-Fi episodes, so maybe that explains it.”
I think that’s part of it, but I think there’s a definite generational-reference gap too. Joel episodes seem to have a *lot* more references both to stuff from the 50’s/60’s/70’s, and also a greater number of obscure literary and film references in general. If you grew up in a period where those references were more current, or if you happen to be geeky in those areas, then the show must be much better for you. If you’re an 80’s-90’s kind of person, then those references and the more familiarly “edgy” style are more of a draw.
I think. I frankly get baffled by this too – I’d rather own Jack Frost by itself than all three of the others, presented with that choice. There’s gotta be something more than just interpersonal variation going on here, or at least so it seems.
Sinbad…if for no other reason, the SOLtie awards. Joel’s face when he’s being announced as a nominee is one of my all-time favorite MST3K moments.
I believe you’ll find that’s because they’re actually the same movie with filler material in different places. If you watch the first segment of The Day The Earth Froze, the second segment of Sinbad, the third segment of The Sword and The Dragon, and the final segment of Jack Frost, you’ll discover the secret message!*
My personal favorite has to be The Day The Earth Froze, if only because it’s one of the first shows I saw with my [future at the time] wife. Also, a week after watching that episode, we got some cheap new monitors for the computer lab I worked in. The brand name? If you think you know, write it on a piece of paper, then throw it away and try to forget about it. :grin:
Oh, and I 56th (or so) the dream of a Russo-Finnish boxed set — but only because none of them have been released yet. If some of them had been released, I’d prefer new episodes to a theme set.
Tough call, they’re all great.
Jack Frost seems to be the most unashamedly goofy of all of them (Baba Yaga couldn’t have been funnier if she was played by Marty Feldman), Day The Earth Froze introduced me to this stuff, Sword and the Dragon might be the most coherent narrative of them, but Sinbad is the total package. I might be partial to Sinbad for having the rough cut online, too. But yeah, Sinbad’s got everything. He’s clearly not Sinbad in any way and there’s such a great mashup of random stuff – Persia, cameo by Egypt, the vikings, King Neptune and his catfish, the jestering, the fishing, it’s got it all.
I’ll go for the ‘Day The Earth Froze’! The filmmakers may have a couple of great mythological concepts in their minds but the execution is so awful (especially the English dub version)that it serves as a perfect target for the MST3K dudes. After all, who can ever forget the fan favorite ‘Failure Song’, one of which that elevates this episode to classic status?
I must say that Jack Frost caught me off guard a bit because I actually knew who Baba Yaga was through my love of Hellboy. That aside the riffing was top notch with such gems as, “Proving once again that slightly unattractive people are evil,” and, “I think what they’re trying to say is marriage is a dizzying, existential ride to nowhere.”
Geez Sampo, why don’t ask us to pick a favorite child?
Just kidding.
I guess I’ll have to with Day the Earth Froze, simply because it has slightly better riffing imo than the other three. The storyline is discernible also, allowing you to follow the plot AND the jokes all at once. The “failure” kick they go on over half-way through is flat-out hysterical! And it comes during that stretch of four straight legendary episodes, too!
A few weeks back I made the statement that you need somewhat of an affinity for bad movies to be a MSTie. That appeared to garner some opposition. But, reading these posts support my proposition. All four of these movies, had it not been for the riffing, qualify as bad movies, yet they all are being given a healthy dose of love. Now, each in their own way tend to be great insomnia cures. The riffs are good and the host segments on these tend to be better, since Joel/Mike ATBs have such good material to work with. I am a bit going contrary to the general thread, when I say my favorite of these four is The Sword and the Dragon. I say that because of the ludicrousness of the plot. And the fact that our hero, being such a good family man, right after he saves the princedom abandons both his country and family to go off on additional adventures. Man, what a guy?
Wow. What a tough call. All four are great, and even though they’ve already got some serious love on here, I’d go with Day the Earth Froze and Jack Frost as the two best.
Jack Frost narrowly beats out the outright classic that is TDTEF. Why? Well, it pushes all my personal movie nerd buttons. The movie is just so damn weird and off the wall. Father Mushroom (I thought Jerry Garcia was Father Mushroom?), Baba Yaga in all her whacked out glory, the bear “transformation,” Nastenka’s nasty sister and mother, the band of thieves whose clubs get tossed in the air, etc. etc.
The guys were really starting to hit their season 8 stride (810-822) here and this stretch is what made me realize that the show was going to continue to rock at the riffing, even though the quality of the host segments, with Pearl, Bobo, and Brain Guy, had very obviously dropped in quality compared to the CC days of the show.
#23 Please explain, did you just say you watch MST3k for the movies? This would be like that dude that wrote an essay on the fact they didn’t play the movies in scope. It’s a show.
#54
“Raptorial Talon says:
November 7th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
“I also thought Jack Frost was the weakest of the four, and don’t understand all the votes for it. Several posters have said they’re mainly into the Sci-Fi episodes, so maybe that explains it.”
I think that’s part of it, but I think there’s a definite generational-reference gap too. Joel episodes seem to have a *lot* more references both to stuff from the 50’s/60’s/70’s, and also a greater number of obscure literary and film references in general. If you grew up in a period where those references were more current, or if you happen to be geeky in those areas, then the show must be much better for you. If you’re an 80’s-90’s kind of person, then those references and the more familiarly “edgy” style are more of a draw.
I think. I frankly get baffled by this too – I’d rather own Jack Frost by itself than all three of the others, presented with that choice. There’s gotta be something more than just interpersonal variation going on here, or at least so it seems.”
The Sci-Fi era was the time when I got to watch MST3K regularly and I was in my late teens at that time. Jack Frost will always be a favorite of mine.
Now, I’ve seen Sinbad and The Sword and the Dragon. I’ve not seen The Day the Earth Froze, but it seems like more of the same. Sinbad and The Sword and the Dragon are long, lavish epics that still manage to be boring.
Jack Frost is a smaller movie. It’s easier to watch on it’s own and it’s a silly movie too.
Well, Jack Frost is my favorite episode, so, yeah. “Our first plot point involves knitting socks? I think we’re in for quite a ride here fellas!” “I’ve never sat on a shovel before” “The FLAT part anyway!” “We’re quite miffed at your attempted murder!” “And you keep knitting and knitting and knitting!” “It’s good to see Anthony Michael Hall working again.” Sword and the Dragon comes in second if only for Crow’s “It’s Ghidrah!” riff, one of the few times I’ve thought something and they’ve said the EXACT SAME THING.
They are all great, but SWORD AND THE DRAGON is my personal favorite. So many great riffs. These four would truly be the GREATEST DVD collection ever, if it were possible to pull off.
#62 creepygirl: I should have been more precise in my wording. I meant that I watch MST3K more for the movie SEGMENTS (ie, good riffing) than for the host segments. For me, if the movie’s too dull or the riffs aren’t very funny, even well-scripted host segments can’t quite make up for it.
I may have defended a few of the “less bad” films they’ve done in the past, but I’m most definitely not one of those people who could ever watch these movies unriffed. I’m not a “bad-film buff.” I just enjoy watching the bad movies get pounced on more than the other aspects of the show. Some films, like Jack Frost, are more ripe for this treatment than others.
Well, it’s pretty close for me as well. Jack Frost and Day the Earth Froze are in the same league…I have to say that Jack Frost seems to hold up the best on repeated viewings for me. There are some dead stretches in Day but the “he failed” part near the end is some might memorable riffing. Love them both.
Sword and the Dragon is just okay.
Sinbad would probably be in my ten least favorite ep list. I don’t know…the riffing just falls flat consistently through out the one.
Jack Frost is definitely my favorite out of the four movies, but on a slight split I’m going to say that The Sword and the Dragon has the best host segments.
This is assuming we’re talking about the episodes as a whole rather than just the movies.
Personally I thing the Sword and the Dragon is one of the better episodes out there a nd definately my favorite Mike Episode (yes, I perfer Joel by far). The Bergman joke is great, I love the other host segments and the movie/jokes are fantastic. “The banjos are howling at midnight? What the hell are you talking about?” One of my favorite lines ever.
I’ve seen all of them and, to me, Jackie Frost (to his friends) is the best by far. It never drags, which the other 3 do to various degrees.
1. Jack Frost
2. Day the Earth Froze
3. Sinbad
4. Sword & the Dragon
Sword and the Dragon.
My favorite is “Jack Frost” too goofy and a schzoid Father Frost, the pig sled, tree huggers (literally), she-male step-sister and a dumb as nails “witch”. “The wolves ‘B’ team could eat him.”
ALL great, great episodes. Riffs, host segments, everything, these always work for me.
Ranked just for the rapporteur:
1. Jack Frost (or, “Smilla’s Sense of Crap”)
2. The Day the Earth Froze
3. Sinbad
4. Sword and the Dragon
And I’ll add a vote for a SF Russo-Finnish Quartet; that would be magnificent.
Somebody earlier said a boxed set of the Russo-Finnish films would have limited non-fan appeal. Really? Like non-fans are buying the other sets? I think Russian and Finnish non-fans might like a set of all four of those films…
In the other post about Jack Frost, someone mentioned that the Brains messed up the hand/Dale thing and confused two separate commercials. I noticed another gaffe in Jack Frost: when the film’s hero kills the bird then plucks a feather from it Mike says, “He must be looking for a Duncan Hines cake to slice”. What they’re referring to is a commercial for Duncan Hines FROSTING that was advertised to be so smooth you could spread it with a PAPER KNIFE. Not a feather.
My vote will go to “Jack Frost”. For me this episode is nearly wall to wall laughs, with barely any slow spots in it. One of my top episodes.
I haven’t seen “Sword and the Dragon” yet, but I’m looking forward to it.
“Magic Voyage of Sinbad” would be my second pick. Really great material and some great riffing. It does have some slow spots, but they are soon over-run by the over the top visuals.
Third would be “The Day the Earth Froze”. Lots of great material again, but has a few more slow spots for me and the ending with the army of harps seems to drag the pacing of the movie quite a bit.
Still all three of these are some of my favorite episodes. Love the fantasy films, love the riffing, and even if it slows down, they are still lots of fun. If Shout Factory can give us a Russian box set, I’m all over that.
Tough call, but I’ll go with The Sword and the Dragon for 3 reasons:
1 the lame hero
2 the Ingmar Bergman joke
3 “Moose and squirrel!”
Steve VII #75:
I clearly remember a series of commercials about cake so light you could cut it with a feather.
my line up is:
1. jack frost
2. sinbad he’s not sinbad
3. sword and the dragon
4. day the earth froze
werebears and schnauzers win for me every time
I have to say Jack Frost; it is such a goofy movie in a way that the other three just aren’t.
I am very much in favor of a “Russo-Finnish” box set if anyone has the mind to put one together….
I strongly disagree with #61 that said all four of these are bad movies. They have done a lot of bad movies on MST3K but these four are not among them. Add me to the list of those that would love to see them in a DVD set. Also #75 is right that all the sets mainly will appeal to fans of the show regarless of which movies are in them.
I became a big MST3K fan when it resumed its run on SciFi. As such, I’ve not had the opportunity to see the first 3 RF movies, only Jack Frost. Given the nutty(“crazy as an outhouse rat”) Russo-Finnish Mise-en-scene of Jack Frost, I’d say getting all of them on one set would be great and an excellent addition to my MST video library.
Shout Factory are you listening?
SAMPO!!! SAMPO!!!
SAMPO! SAMPO ! :razz:
#78
Here’s what I remember:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEuSVT9q2_Q
I couldn’t find ANYTHING online about cake being cut with a feather. And it turned out to be Pillsbury frosting.
PS-
Is arguing about cake the most bizarre conversation anyone has ever had on the message blogs?
I’ve tallied everything up, so here are the results. (I know I said Wednesday, but I like being ahead of the game.)
Total Mentions:
Jack: 38
DTEF: 33
Sinbad: 26
Sword: 23
Average Placement:
DTEF: 1.46
Jack: 1.61
Sinbad: 1.92
Sword: 2.91
First Place Mentions:
Jack: 27
DTEF: 22
Sinbad: 12
Sword: 7
Last Place Mentions:
Sword: 12
Jack: 4
Sinbad: 2
DTEF: 1
So, what’s it all mean? Hell, I don’t know. Basically, “DTEF” and “Jack Frost” are neck and neck for the favorite, “Sinbad” isn’t far behind, and “Sword” is a long way behind.
Interestingly, “Sword” was a love-it-or-hate-it episode. It was mentioned 23 times and 19 of those mentions were for either first or last place. It’s a cult favorite within a cult show. Wow!
For me, it’s a toss-up between ‘Sword and Dragon’ and ‘Jack Frost’. Gypsy’s nonsense song in ‘Sword’ and the first scene with the Hunchback Fairy in ‘Frost’ both had me in hysterics.
Steve VII:
Just because it’s not online doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I promise you those commercials were made and broadcast.
Here’s my current ranking based on having watched them all twice in the past year:
1. 813 “JACK FROST”
2. 505 “SINBAD”
3. 422 “DAY THE EARTH FROZE”
4. 617 “SWORD AND THE DRAGON”
They are all great episodes, and the two Joel/ two Mike ratio really makes these an ideal box set. The downside of this idea is that the films are SO similar to each other, the set might be a chore to get through and could potentially limit sales.
Full disclosure: I put Sword last because the last time I watched it, I got distracted by the internet, and instead of pausing, I let the episode run in the background (which I rarely ever do – I find it hard to passively watch MST3K, plus I’d seen it once before). By the time I came back to it during the third act battle scenes I was a bit confused and uninvolved. But I stand by my ranking because the others are so enjoyable.
GT @ 87 Thanks for the stat review and comments. I think, like most who post here, we all enjoy every one of these films depending on the mood that strikes us. Sure there are some that absolutely will not watch a film but they are very few and far between.
Fart Bargo #91 – I totally agree. I really didn’t care too much for “Sword” until I watched it thoroughly for the Riff Project. I know it has a “C” on my review site, but it’s climbing.
I also think that Mst3k enjoyment is cyclical. For instance, currently, I just can’t get enough of “Ring of Terror”. The week before that, it was “Giant Spider Invasion”. Therefore, this Russo-Finnish list is very volatile.
“Sinbad” wins it for me.
The riffs are great and the movie doesn’t seem so awful to me.
Also, I just can’t get enough of all the “he isn’t Sinbad” jokes.
A flat-footed tie between “Sinbad” and “Jack Frost”. A personal note: in my day job, I teach Russian language and literature, so all these movies have a special place in my heart. I teach a course in Russian folk tales, and actually show the non-riffed version of “Jack F.” to my class, since that’s one of the tales we read. (I offer the MST version to anyone who wants it–in a brown paper bag, as it were . . .) Now, one thing everyone in my field knows is that there is NOTHING more over-the-top than Soviet-era Russo-Finnish fairy-tale movies–they pull out all the stops, pour on the corn and the saccharine, and process out all the dark stuff. Only in my field, you’re not allowed to criticize the over-the-topness! Sooo, for me it is a wicked pleasure to watch the ‘bots have at it–go after the bizarreness and scenery-chewing and hamminess, without the slightest hint of anything “anti-Russian”. So, take that, you Soviet schockmeisters!! And that!!! And that!!!!
Definitely “Jack Frost” – but I love ’em all!
I’m torn, truly torn between “Jack Frost” and “The Sword and the Dragon”…just as the MST3K Episode Guide states, at times the Russo-Finnish films are unbelievably well-shot and beautiful, and at other times you could shoot whole popcorn kernels through your nose while laughing. The riffing on both films was just priceless. I never much cared for “The Day The Earth Froze” or “Sinbad” episodes, though.