Looks like someone’s a little bitter:
They’d later go on to have a second life on Mystery Science Theater 3000. Are you familiar with that show?
Yeah, right. I’ve caught some of those.You have?
Yeah. With the idiots sitting in the front row and commenting on what they see on the screen.You weren’t too pleased with those?
No, I wasn’t too pleased with those.
So, is he justified in his displeasure or should he lighten up? And whether or not he’s justified, do you think any other actor (or director or whatever) would be justified in not being too pleased with MST3K?
Me, I always thought they were a little mean to Kathy Ireland…
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I will always defend Time Chasers. It’s cheesey no doubt about that but there was heart to the film and it’s actually had a story unlike most of the other MST3K movies.
I also feel that Rifftrax is 1000X worse for outright slams which I find a little bit like a internet troll.
A little off-topic but I had no idea that Killers from Space director William Wilder was Billy Wilder’s estranged brother. It looks like he only became a filmmaker after Billy Wilder won an Oscar. The stories behind some of these MST3K directors are pretty interesting. He also made Phantom from Space and The Snow Creature, which are so boring I bet MST3K passed them up. I guess skill didn’t run in the family.
Mystery Science Theater 3000: Serious Business
For those actors or directors upset over the treatment they got from the Brains, they seriously need to lighten up.
Look, nobody’s disputing the effort and time that goes into movie-making and acting, but as more than a few folks have already observed, if you’re going to be in that industry you have to be prepared for the fact that not everything you make will be liked by the public. That’s the nature of the beast. Besides. for those like Peter Graves who made a good living at it, I daresay he has more fans of his work, particularly Mission Impossible or his hosting duties on “Biography”, than MST3K has fans, so what’s the harm? Seems to me like his ego can’t handle a little good-natured ribbing.
And really, what harm did the Brains do with their jibes? Did they ever incur a lawsuit for libel, slander or defamation of character? What MST3K did was more the equivalent of teasing, and you should be willing to accept that kind of criticism and let it roll off your back, especially if you’ve been in the industry as long as Mr. Graves.
Besides, I think those upset with the Brains treatment of their work are missing a very important point: without their work being shown on MST3K, their efforts would’ve been lost in the mists of time. Who would’ve mentioned Coleman Francis or Bill Rebane or even Ed Wood (as “Plan 9 from Outer Space” was the only movie folks seemed to remember him for) nowadays with MST3K?
“Manos: the Hands of Fate” never would’ve enjoyed the cult status it does today with MST3K, as it would’ve just been a forgotten film. MST3K introduced those films to a whole new audience, and while they were the butt of the joke the films enjoyed a new life they never would’ve had otherwise.
If you’re in an industry where your work is made available for public consumption – and as a free-lance NHL columnist I know first hand – you have to be willing to accept the bad as well as the good from those who view your work.
#86, Robby Benson was in the MiSTed movie, [403] “City Limits.”
There are plenty of squemish folks who balk at dead baby jokes (personally, I laugh like hell’s gate).
There are lots of upper class twits that hate Monty Python.
There are Czechs who can not abide SNL’s two “wild and crazy guys.”
There are Germans who just don’t get Mel Brooks.
There are Lilliputians that have it in for Swift( they would do him in if they could, swiftly).
There are dogs that howl at Family Guy.
There are dog owners that can not see what was “Best in Show”
Comedy is not about pleasing everyone. (especially I’m Peter Graves)
Did you hear that Sara Palin?
By the way, Sarah, your daughter and I….well….yum.
I think Harvey Korman would have been just fine in “Airplane”.
At the first MST3K convention, one of the guests at the celebrity panel was David Worth, the director of Warrior Of The Lost World. When he talked about the making of the movie, he told how just a few days after pitching his idea of a “guy with a talking motorcycle” movie to a producer and signing a contract, said producer sent him off to Italy to start filming. At this point, he hadn’t had time to write a screenplay, all he had was a treatment. And all of a sudden, he found himself plunked down in the middle of Italy with a tiny budget, a film crew that spoke no English, and he was supposed to start shooting the movie immediately.
Well, after hearing that, I’ve never been able to view that episode with the same jaundiced eye as I had before. At least Mr. Worth was a good sport and was able to laugh about the past.
Oh, and he kept reminding us that “The Paper Chase guy” actually had a name.
I think Peter Graves did get it when Airplane! was made (stiff persona popping out non-sequitur). What made him change his mind?
A person involved in a movie should be grateful for riffing treatment, heck, their work could be languishing in public domain if it wasn’t for mst3k.
Another poster had already brought up the possibility that maybe many of these known actors and directors don’t WANT their early, bad work to be rediscovered by the public, and are probably upset that MST3K uncovered them all.
Kinda like how the Brains tried to keep most of KTMA buried for a long time.
I sympathize with Mr Graves about the riffs about him, but the fact is he gave many bad performances in many bad movies. When an actor is credible and it’s obvious they are trying their best to do something with nothing(Beverly Garland comes to mind), they don’t generally take much heat. There are definitely moments I’ve cringed watching good actors get hammered, but I’m mostly cringing at the fact they’re in these duds and obviously needed a quick buck or were just starting out.
Maybe if Peter had consulted his brother instead of the local lumber yard for acting tips, we wouldn’t be having these conversations about him. :mrgreen:
I recently met Richard Kiel at a signing event.
I got a few Bond pictures signed and then I took a chance and asked if he would mind if I asked him to sign my dvd cover for MST3k’s “Eegah!”
He did it with no complaints and even signed it with “EEGAH!” in addition to my name.
Great guy.
He seemed to have no problem with MST3K.
I fall into the camp that finds the personal attacks on actors and directors a bit too much at times – especially when they end up going on and on about it. I can see how some of these people would get upset.
On the flip side I don’t mind them making fun of chracters, writing, editing or other elements of the movie. As others have stated, if you put your work out there you’ve got to expect some kind of commentary from someone.
And the other thing to remember is that comedy is subjective. One of the great things about MST3K is that they attempt to hit all types of comedy with all kinds of jokes. This makes some episodes resonate better with some people and not with others. This also means that they will attempt to find humor in everything, and this can lead to personal jibes. Laughter often comes from the unexpected, and most of us just expect jokes of a personal nature. I just wish they wouldn’t beat those types of jokes to death.
I too have noticed that once Joel and Trace left the jokes shifted to a more antagonistic stance. I don’t mind and often find the later stuff more funny. But I agree that there was a definate shift in tone.
Perhaps they struck a nerve with all the James Arness jokes? When you really think about it, there must have been some sort of comparison between the two during the more active parts of their careers. “Why can’t you be more like James?” or “James was on the longest running TV show in history. How’s Mission: Impossible, Peter?” Could have taken the man years to choke down his resentment enough to speak to his brother again.
Justified? Maybe not. But when is indignation ever justified?
#101 “I will always defend Time Chasers. It’s cheesey no doubt about that but there was heart to the film and it’s actually had a story unlike most of the other MST3K movies.”
=====================
Darn right. I thought Mike was a bit over the top in making fun of their reaction to the show’s airing on the dvd intro.
As I’ll point out in a few months, if you watch and listen carefully to the film, the script a number of bits (scenes and/or dialogue) that actually, given their low budget for effects, did make the plot and time eras in the film believable. And the cinematography of Vermont was really quite nice.
Oh, and Go Spartans! Castleton! I figure the big chin hero had to be their legendary running back…or bicyclist…or av geek (whatever).
A little off-topic but I had no idea that Killers from Space director William Wilder was Billy Wilder’s estranged brother. It looks like he only became a filmmaker after Billy Wilder won an Oscar. The stories behind some of these MST3K directors are pretty interesting. He also made Phantom from Space and The Snow Creature, which are so boring I bet MST3K passed them up. I guess skill didn’t run in the family.
Seriously? Damn, you’re right. William Wilder joins the ranks of MST3K “stars” best known for being the, er, less distinguished siblings of more talented persons, e.g. Joe Estevez, Neil Connery, Beau Bridges, Timothy van Patten…there must be others.
It’s amazing how pretending in front of a camera suddenly makes someone a genius, a scholar, someone who should be immune from comedic abuse. Actors tend to take themselves far, far too seriously. Just try listening to or reading a Megan Fox interview, an “actress” who gets upstaged by computer-generated robots at every turn, and getting through the whole thing. It ain’t brain surgery or rocket science, and most of it should be MST3K fodder anyway.
Peter Graves played a pilot who made passes at 12-year-old boys, and somehow he thinks he has the right to call some guys making fun of bad sci-fi movies “idiots.” Does he not see the hypocrisy here? I liked the Mission: Impossible show as much as the next guy, but it seems to me that a great many actors–Mr. Graves included, apparently–should only open their mouths when on screen. Some of them shouldn’t even do it then. (I believe someone mentioned Megan Fox…)
A little harsh? Pfft. Have you heard some of the tripe that comes from celebrities’ mouths? It’s heart-breaking that people slaver over these nut-jobs in the papers and on TV while intelligent people with intelligent things to say get pushed to the sidelines. 90% of celebrities should be poster children for abortion, not media deities.
In conclusion, Peter Graves is too goddamn full of himself and should be made fun of on a daily basis, until that bloated ego is back down to a slim waistline. The end.
“Gene Siskel once said on his show that he knew a producer who always applauded after every movie he saw, because he knew how much effort it took to make a film…
As I get older, I’m leaning more towards that feeling and away from Mst3K.”
I’ve been working on feature films for the past 16 (yikes, I’m getting old) years. Yes, it’s a ton of work. But at some point you have to concede that some of the work you’ve done just…well….sucks despite your best efforts. As I get older, I tend to like MST more and more, especially after a really long day working on a sh*%$y movie! :)
The Rifftrax guys have given it to some of the work I’ve done, and I think it’s awesome. Of course, I tend to have a bit of a self-depreciating sense of humor anyway, perhaps that is the key. Besides, I think that anything that makes people smile is a good thing.
A B-Movie actor mad at a show that watches B-movies?
Unfortunatly for Peter “I’ll-take-any-role” Graves, he shares the screen with a giant alien pickle, which makes him unable to call ANYONE an idiot.
In any case, he was probably mad that they kept making jokes about his brother.
How could anyone involved in the making of “The Beginning of the End” or “Mitchell”, NOT have a sense of humor about it?? Granted, some riffs are a bit more personal than others, but the fact that this turd you were involved in years ago and most likely have regretted in some way or other is STILL drawing interest should put a smile on your face! Lighten up!!
What’s the saying? Not everyone will get it, but the right people will.
Where’s this need to have everyone agree with us and like what we like coming from?
I never felt MST3k ever got TOO harsh. It’s the whole point of the show… and even when it seems very harsh, it’s all in good fun.
I LOVE bad movies, and I love to make fun of them on my own, but I still love to watch them and I love the movies themselves. I spend a lot of my time watching UNriffed crap. They are some of my favourite movies.
With that sort of mindset, I always felt they had a very obvious appreciation for the bad movies and actors they made fun of on MST3k, no matter how hard they were on them.
Anyone getting upset over being made fun of (not matter HOW harshly) on MST3k is about as absurd a thought to me as someone being mad at Weird Al. (ahem… Coolio, wtf?!)
If MST3k had made fun of me, I would have felt honoured, even if it was for a movie I had put my entire life on the line for.
Personally, I don’t give a rat’s ass what Peter Graves thinks about ANYTHING.
Actor’s, musicians, politicians…..none of ’em know how to change a flat tire. They get paid to pretend that they are real people and usually that’s as close as they ever really get.
Amen, Brother.
It is Peter’s right not to like it, it’s not everyone’s cup o tea – but MST style of put down humor is as old as time itself (or, at least as old as Jesters mocking Royalty). Reading the posts that speak about the effort was put into these movies (Vonnegut made such a comment to Kevin as seen in ACEG) my answer is, yeah – so what. Does that mean it’s off limits? Using that line of thought, then no critic should give a negative review, there can be no Mad magazine film parodies, no SNL skits, NO “Airplane” which satirizes the “Airport” series on which many people toiled. When Crow, during Hercules used the Groucho Marx line “Pardon me while I have a strange interlude”… he was referencing something that was in itself, a riff – a tease, on a Eugene O’Neill play. I’m not sure if Eugene cared for the poke on something he worked on, but that’s humor. Comic’s through the ages tease, mock, belittled, hurl satirical barbs – they even take aim at themselves. MST3K didn’t break any comedy rules, despite all the people who toiled on the movies they riffed on, and who’s feelings might have been hurt.
*Ahem*
All together now…..
“Just repeat to yourself, ‘It’s just a show – I should really just relax….'”
Thanks, DrChadFeelgood. I’m ready to move on from this topic.
Professional film-geek Harry Knowles of Ain’t It Cool News recently posted an interview with famed makeup artist Rick Baker on the set of the upcoming Wolfman movie. While discussing Famous Monsters of Filmland and classic horror makeup artists, Harry says this :
“I’m such a classic movie freak, so to me I wound up hating MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER just because they decided to lampoon THIS ISLAND EARTH and I don’t think THIS ISLAND EARTH deserves to be lampooned.”
This seemed relevant to this discussion, as it shows it’s not only the original film-makers that might not appreciate what MST does to their beloved works of art. I know that Tim Lucas, author/editor of Video Watchdog (of which I am a faithful subscriber) is also NOT a fan, for similar reasons. Both of these guys make a living from celebrating B-movies like a religion, but are unable to appreciate MST’s comedic approach to the very same material.
Later in that same AICN talk with Rick Baker, Harry tells a funny/creepy story of selling a movie poster to a man whose face was damaged in a fiery accident: “That was just the coolest poster, so somewhere in the world there’s a man who’s face is melted with an AMAZING MELTING MAN poster.”
If your movie is on MST3K it deserves to be there.
You should be ashamed at yourself, not the SoL crew.
Re: post 129. Knowles has made it known on several other occasions that he dislikes MST3K but that’s OK by me because Harry is an incredibly annoying, spastic moron who writes, hands down, the WORST movie reviews (if you can call them that, they’re more like F-bomb laden ramblings containing over-nostalgic stories-within-stories and he constantly uses descriptions of his excrement and uh, his OTHER bodily functions to describe his emotions when seeing any given flick) on the web. You’re talking about a guy who gave the Devlin/Emmerich Godzilla a great review because he had so much fun throwing a flippin’ beachball around with a crowd in times square while the movie played and he CRIED during Armageddon. And that was just ’98, sooooo many more offenses in the 11 years since then. I actually like the fact that Harry hates MST3K and am overjoyed the show hurts his “sense” of cinema history because it proves what an incredibly over-nostalgic man-baby he is and how sadly serious he takes every B/sci-fi flick in existence. I cringe to think of he and that humorless moron Eric Wallace from the olf SF Vortex interview pompously pontificating in the same room together.
As for our newly found self important friend Mr. Graves:
Ross: ““I’m Peter Graves, and I’m learning to develop a sense of humour, here at the Univesity of Minnesota.”
I couldn’t have said it better myself. And Grave’s little assertion here is quite laughable indeed:
“Graves: Yeah. I did one for Roger Corman. He’s still with us. He was brilliant — he knew story and character very well. I think he made as good sci-fi pictures as anyone, no matter what their budget. The only thing that we were missing in those days were the special effects, of course. But his screenplays were certainly as good as anything like Jurassic Park, which cost what, $100 million? ”
Seriously, folks. You can talk all you want about his right to his own sense of humor (Cave Dweller nails it though when pointing out he shows his true colors when he calls them idiots), but right before slamming MST3K, the man PRAISES ROGER CORMAN, calling him “brilliant” and apparently according to Mr. Graves Corman is also being quite prescient on what makes a well written story and compelling characters! Looks like someone should have taken in a writing class or two at the old UofM. :lol: And yes, Peter. If only the Killers From Space had a “100 million dollar budget” (actually Jurassic Park cost closer to 55 mil) and CGI eyes to replace those ping pong balls, surely audiences would have taken the movie and its message more seriously.
Likeable guy, decent actor, but he should be glad his movies got more exposure on the show and that the guys let him off waaaaay easier than most other male leads in the history of the show. They barely even made fun of him for crying out loud.
While I don’t agree with Peter Graves I’m sypathetic towards his position.
Sometimes I think we forget that MST3K is very much rooted in the Generation X expirience of responding to years of media and TV saturation. It never really lost that feel of being a Midwestern Slapdash UHF show throughout its run and that was part of its witty charm.
Graves though is an old school performer through and through without that background. What MST3K does must seem a lot like heckling or vindictive criticism from his perspective. Likewise, a lot of people younger than him share that older perspective of seeing any lapooning of material as a knock on hours of work under conditions that aren’t always ideal.
Older fans like Graves who weren’t raised with the 90’s slacker bizarro/mondo/post-modern sense of humor or even younger ones who recognize that same pop culture pastiche but embrace it as if it were religion (i.e. Harry Knowles) will never like or respect MST3K. I think they must see it as degredating a form of entertainment instead of celebrating it.
I think those fans and men like Graves are wrong. Rejecting MST3K is also rejecting the fact that the movies they made were widespread. Mike/Joel and the Bots, unlike shoe kissers like Knowles, aren’t interested in getting as close as they can to Hollywood elite even if it is B-Movie royalty.
The SOL members were veterens of late night and afternoon Sci-Fi matinees and never lost their roots as being consumers of cheesy nostolgia instead of trying to either canonize it or become its chief curator. In other words they remained well rounded humans and not obsessed fanboys. Someone is going to have to explain why that is a bad thing.
#127 – I assure you I am relaxed. I calmly posted an answer to a question that was asked.
#132 – Well said Neil. But I’d like to add that Lampooning, taking cracks at a persons work has been around even before Peter Graves was in the picture. It’s not a modern conceit. You can go back to the silent era, Buster Keaton’s 1922’s short film “The Frozen North” was an obvious play on the William S. Hart films of the era. And when you consider Fatty Arbuckle had a hand in writing the piece and that he and Hart had a bit of a feud, it seems even more apparent that the film was a deliberate poke in the eye directed at Hart, his career and acting style.
And this wasn’t the exception to the rule. In vaudeville, plays, film, books, comic strips or even song. Our modern era wasn’t the first to use humor to take the piss out of other performers.
re: I think the “He’s an old school performer/old guy so he just wouldn’t get that Gen-x type of humor” is mostly a stereotype and as others have pointed out, heckling humor has been around for eons. Look at the Don Sullivan interview. He’s an old guy but Giant Gila monster is his favorite movie for the very fact that it was made fun of on MST3K! haha
By “re:” I meant to type “re: 132.”
They were pretty rough on Frank. And Observer.
(I’ve missed the point again, haven’t I?)
Do you want a joke? :) What did the sailor say when he saw a boat loaded with ewes? Sheep ahoy!
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All the guy said is he didn’t care for it. I doubt he was hurt or really even cares at all. He probably didn’t even see a whole episode, but just saw a part of it and thought it was a stupid waste of time and turned it off. A lot of people, from any generation, do this. MST3K can be an acquired taste. You really have to sit down and watch it properly to understand the whole premise and get all the subtleties. At first glance the show does seem kind of dumb. It’s not everyone’s thing. Maybe if he was bored enough to sit down and watch a bunch of the better episodes all the way through late at night after a few martinis- he’d like them, but I seriously doubt that will ever happen. I don’t think he was being a bad sport, it’s just not his thing, he doesn’t care.
Also a lot of people, fans as well, seem to think that just because you are making fun of something, you think it has no value or you’re unable to appreciate the context or value of certain aspects of the film. I think you can like a film and riff the hell out of it at the same time. I actually think that IT CONQUERED THE WORLD was a pretty cool little story with some good dialog and a lot of potential, which is part of what makes it fun to make fun of. It’s also incredibly cheesey, which makes it easy to riff. I don’t think the riffing is meant personally or meant to be taken seriously and I doubt Graves or Joe Don Baker do. This is our geek world, they’ve got their own.
I also think jokes about recently dead actors is meant in the spirit of good fun and see it as a kind of homage and nothing to get upset about it. The problem arises when you actually believe all the negative comments are true. Sarcasm has many meanings, positive as well as negative, none of which should be taken seriously.
Hot entertainment and overall fun at this site.-Hot Adult Entertainment
RIP Peter Graves.
I always respected his work. Mission Impossible was one of my favorite shows.