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Joel Launches a New Kickstarter48 Replies to “Joel Launches a New Kickstarter”Commenting at Satellite News
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ugh, I keep forgetting they added those “cute’ new robots
that’s the sort of thing classic MST3K used to mock…
Actually, I’m pretty sure they *did* mock the show-adds-cute-new-character-to-boost-ratings gimmick
Timmy Bobby Rusty, anyone?
its called Cousin Oliver Syndrome.
I like the Rolfe-like Growler. M. Waverly…eh, he’s not too bad.
They’ve already broken the day-one record from the first Kickstarter (about $850k), and it has only been about 6 hours.
Joel’s got some mighty ambitious plans for the future. This is going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
I missed out on the last Kickstarter, but I wanted to make sure to get in on this one, so I just pledged. Very much looking forward tp this.
I dunno. I kinda like the little orange guy.
So is the Gizmoplex going to be MST3K’s own streaming service?
Wonderful news! I was hoping that Joel wasn’t going to make cast changes or just film live shows. I love the current cast as well as the studio sets and other visuals such as the movie sign door sequence. Joel is so visually creative that it’s hard to imagine the live shows being a sufficient outlet for his special brand of visual creativity.
I’m in! So glad Jonah, Hampton, and Baron are getting more episodes.
Over 98% in 24 hours! THAT’S impressive! Here’s to making the stretch goals faster than last time!
They reached $2 million a few minutes ago.
This seems appropriate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRe944bOiAs
It certainly sounds that way.
Sort of, it’s going to be a combination of what Rifftrax’s website has, where you can download DRM-free versions of the upcoming HD episodes as well as watch them on the site. Gizmoplex will also have capabilities like Scener where they can premiere content live and have multiple webcams for Q&A’s and chat for audience interaction. So there will be timed live events, that will require a day/month pass to view, as well as content you purchased. It is also possible they will have free content, like perhaps Turkey Day will play here. There has been no word of classic episodes, to my knowledge, but I presume they will have a bulk of the catalog here to purchase as classic episode digital downloads were promised as part of the Kickstarter.
I *really* like the new robots! Don’t be so closed-minded everyone, the show has to grow and evolve, and the new characters provide a way to avoid the same host segment patterns we’ve all seen many times before: Crow shirks schoolwork/writes a script/is sarcastic, Tom is bombastic/sings a song/is sarcastic, or the both team up to mess with the Human.
Back in the Comedy Central days, when Joel left, I expressed great and really overblown concern, in a Compuserve forum (remember THAT?), that the show was losing its way, that without Joel it was becoming just a bunch of slot-in characters. Now, Joel is BACK, and the slot-in characters are a lot of fun! I was wrong. The show’s premise really is strong enough to be bent and warped and still work. Or so says I, and we all know how right I always am.
See, I always thought that everyone has the right to their own opinion. Calling someone close-minded because they don’t agree with you is what children do. It’s possible for civilized people to disagree about something yet have reasonable discussion about it without calling other people names.
“It’s possible for civilized people to disagree about something yet have reasonable discussion about it without calling other people names.”
Well, lots of things are possible…
Yes, every show must “grow and evolve”, but that doesn’t mean that every change is going to be good. As someone mentioned on this site earlier, the new ‘bots have a Muppet-like feel to them, and not in a good way–too cute, and too precious by half. The bridge on the SOL isn’t that big a space. No need to overcrowd, IMHO.
Personally, I love how Joel has taken his baby back and is experimenting with different approaches to it. Jonah is great (Emily is, too). I’ve always liked the idea of an actual female-person actress playing Gypsy, and making her slimmer and trimmer is okay, too. For me, the jury is still out on the rest of the cast. Trace and Kevin set the bar very high with Crow & Servo. I hope this time around, they give the Mads Felicia and Patton more to do. Finally, “The Gauntlet” was ruined for me by the fact that the movies they chose were unwatchable, with or without riffs. Dig up some more older fodder, I say–the newer a turkey is, the more ghastly. Overall, it would help to ratchet the production values down a bit: part of the charm of the classic show is its home made feel. Again, “new” does not automatically mean “better” . . .
I’ll let others feed the Kickstarter this time. I’ll just wait and see what comes out the other end.
That one with Lee Majors was pretty good, but most of them were painful, like the deep sea creature one made by Roger Corman. Snoozefest.
I thought “Mac and Me” was pretty bad, but at least it had a good musical score, and the disabled kid was portrayed as fully adjusted to his condition and able to function. “Atlantic Rim” wasn’t just lousy, it tried to be purposely lousy, which is worse. “Lords of the Deep” tried to be nothing more than an “Abyss/DeepStar Six” rip-off, which is OK, but it was cut too much for the show. “Day Time Ended” had some interesting ideas and good stop-motion, but was too confusing. “Killer Fish” was a good attempt, but that one was also cut too much for the show. And “Ator” just was a worse movie than it’s less-worse sequel. In general, I thought The Gauntlet worked OK, though. I wouldn’t consider any of the movies “unwatchable”.
I’ve got mixed feelings about this, but more than anything, I’m happy there is still so much interest in our beloved “cowtown puppet show”. Sure, not everything in the past two seasons, or what I saw of the live cast, were to my taste 100%. But it still felt like an old friend–changed over the years as we all do–but still familiar, entertaining, and somewhat comforting.
I’m certainly willing to throw in support for more episodes. Count me in!
Mac and Me is enjoyable trash. I hated how Atlantic Rim discarded any tenets of low-budget movie making. Easily the worst MSTed movie ever due to its very nature.
Agreed. But for me, Mac & Me was decidedly NOT enjoyable. The kid in the wheelchair is nice, but Ronald McDonald is Satan and the aliens are ugly and unlovable. Mac & Me & Atlantic Rim were the worst one-two punch in the history of MST3K. And Lords of the Deep made it a trifecta. Just thinking about them again has me on the verge of another episode . . . I was so traumatized that the other movies in The Gauntlet are now just a blur, though I do kind of remember that I wanted to see The Day Time Ended again. I’ll say again: the state of the art for cinema today can give bad movies a superficial patina of competence that only makes their awfulness that much harder to take.
Already entered my pledge, and I’m looking forward to more MST3K!!
I pledged $100, but I still maintain that Atlantic Rim is the worst of the entire series. Great host segments, though!
Ironically, the host segments in The Gauntlet were generally much better than in S11 (except for “Every Country Has a Monster”).
For me there are Unwatchables in every season.
I’m not sure about the notion that the show *has* to grow and evolve. Joel *chose* to grow and evolve it, and I think it’s pretty good. It would also be good if it was still half a dozen people in an office park outside Minneapolis. I’m still coming to terms with how insanely overproduced it is — multiple puppeteers per bot?! Syncing up the audio afterward when they’re not watching the movie? I about fell out of my chair when I saw the length of the credits in season 11. No wonder it’s a quarter million an episode.
But new MST is certainly better than no MST, so I’m acclimating. I’m still unclear how the Gizmoplex will function. Rifftrax is simple — I pay for each movie/item, but there’s no required subscription just to get in the door. I’m assuming the Gizmoplex will be something similar?
Atlantic Rim really was just terrible, but I don’t know about unwatchable. Ditto for Lords of the Deep, it was so wonderfully stupid. I just want to raz that movie’s hair and tell it everything’s gonna be okay.
There is an undeniable flaw with the new shows that never gets mentions: the ban on black & white films and the exclusion of “films”m that aren’t in widescreen. This eliminates everything from Sandy Frank (all Pan & Scan only), “movies” made from failed 70s shows/pilots, anythings with Bela Lugosi, the AIP TV versions of the Russo-Finnish films, etc. etc.
I hope with Netflix out of the way we see this change.
The thing about showbiz is, you have to move forward, not back. I preferred the old aesthetic, too. But now that they’ve gone full scale, they can’t go back. To do so would be a professional failure from their perspective.
I have to agree with this, and it clearly belies the idea of the “cowtown puppet show” I mentioned earlier. The “shoestring” aspect of the original show was one of its most endearing aspects. I do like that there was an attempt to capture some of that in the new episodes, in particular with the feel of some of the host segments, but it frankly seemed a bit contrived — not to mention a bit hard to believe with the hundreds of folks involved that it was a small-time operation. A scaled-back production definitely would be welcome. On the other hand, Joel is creating jobs. ;)
I sort of understand the reasoning, at least initially in the “hey, look me over” phase of shopping for a deep-pockets network to fund future seasons. That might have made it a tougher sell. But I’d hope that in the new “fan-funded” model Joel might be willing to back off of this caveat. I mean, it’s about the right people will getting it, isn’t it? :)
That’s a good point. I think Joel once said that we can take the show out of Minneapolis, but we can’t take the Minneapolis out of the show. I’m not so sure about that now, but I do appreciate that he’s providing all these creative professionals with a way to make a living.
I strongly agree with this. It’s glorious to see new episodes in widescreen/HD, but for me one of the most poignant qualities of MST3K was discovering a ratty old B&W print of some super-obscure movie. To this day I frequently return to the Coleman Francis episodes. I’d like to think there’s room enough in the MST3K world for Atlantic Rim *and* The Dead Talk Back.
I really want the films from the live shows to be turned into episodes. I was only able to catch the first tour, but Argoman the Fantastic Superman was an absolute delight, a combination of Diabolik and Pumaman with a dash of the Italian James Bond knock-offs that featured so well on the show. I really regret not making the screening for No Retreat, No Surrender, as I loved RiffTrax riffing it. And the rest, The Brain, Circus of Horror, and Deathstalker II (which takes the award for the most hilariously forced yet still somewhat natural title drop of all time), would all fit well.
Also, SST Deathflight and Mazes & Monsters. The former is the KTMA episode I’ve always wanted them to revisit (and as a huge fan of San Francisco International, airplane movies are my riff du jour), and the latter is a PSA/Morality Play/Adults writing Young People Poorly feature with Tom Hanks before he was a star.
So I want to break down the idea that there are simply too many people working on the show now for it to feel low-budget and homey, because it’s never sat well with me. We all love fhe original show, but the simple fact is that the shorter credits don’t necessarily mean that the workload was manageable for a small crew, only that it got done anyway. Moreover the lack of budget and of unions means many people were presumably being underpaid for their labor. But I think ultimately the changes have been pretty marginal and easy to explain. I’ve compared the credits to Reptilicus with those of Mitchell–I think most folks will agree season five has at least one everyone everyone considers a high point.
The big thing everyone complains about is the idea that each puppet now has two puppeteers. The fact is that this has been pretty standard in puppetry since at least Jim Henson–one puppeteer moves the mouth and right arm, while another moves the left arm. I know for a lot of people their relative immobility is part of the bots’ charm, but I don’t think anyone would argue that this is a deliberate design choice. Indeed, Crow is a deliberately complicated machine with a lot of moving parts. I far prefer a Crow with a competent team under him to the Crow-with-a-stroke that would inevitably result from handing him to someone less skilled. And as for the dubbed-in voices, I think Ray having comedic partners he feels comfortable with and has chemistry with is a fair trade.
As for the rest–I think people are just intimidated by the long credits scroll, and haven’t really given any consideration to what it is most of these people do.
The biggest change that sticks out to me personally is the number of assistants–assistant directors, assistant camera operators, playback assistants, makeup assistants, assistant editors, post-production assistants. The old show had one paid assistant, and four interns. This is obviously a huge problem–without assistants, directors have to manage timetables on their own, editors need to keep track of footage while editing it, camera operators need to track focus while keeping the camera steady and watching for movement. The truth is having one person doing any given job is a lot. And that’s saying nothing of the set assistants who make sure everything is running smoothly in general, the jack-of-all-trades who can help prevent breakdowns in communication and handle emergencies.
I wanna zoom in on the editing team for a moment. The new show has a fifteen-person editing team, not counting special effects. That means there’s someone making sure the sound is mixed so that everything is appropriately audible (loud voices, low music, medium effects), there’s someone making sure the sound is in sync, there’s someone making sure the color levels match from shot to shot, there’s someone keeping track of things that need to be rerecorded, I could go on. On the old show? That was two people.
There are more makeup artists now. In the old days, one person was handling Joel, Trace, Frank, and any given bit player. Makeup is largely invisible on film but everyone wears it, and it’s what keeps people from looking too flush or too pale under the hot lights. A larger cast means six make-up artists is pretty reasonable. You may disagree that the Boneheads are necessary, but since they’re here, surely you wouldn’t argue one people should be doing all their makeup.
The old show had one accountant. This show has two, plus an assistant. With more people to pay, more overseas rights to clear, and the pressure of having receiving millions of dollars of fan money, this seems extremely reasonable.
And there are roles on this show no one was filling. There’s a set medic! How the goddamn hell did the old show, with its pyrotechnics and slapstick and collapsing sets, not have a goddamn medic?
There’s catering and craft services–no one’s paying for food out of pocket, no one’s missing meals. Not to say that was happening on the old show but eliminating the risk is a definite plus.
And then there’s the miniatures and sets. Trace and Joel designed and built that stuff single-handed. While writing and starring in the show. While I’m sure it was fulfilling for them, it was also presumably exhausting, and from a professional perspective it’s absolutely goddamn nuts. Thirty-six people worked to build the new Satellite of Love, both rooms of Moon 13, Jonah’s ship, guest characters’ ships, the Gizmonic campus, and the new moon prop and SOL prop. That seems like a much more fair division of labor. Again, you can debate whether Moon 13 needed two rooms, or if Moon 13 needed to be so big, or whatever. But none of that has anything to do with the number of people on staff. Broadly speaking, even the classic two-sets two-ships setup should’ve required at least a dozen people.
And that’s basically it. Basically all of this boils down to preventing burnout and overwork. It’s making sure people have the resources they need and the support they need to do things right without killing themselves. Joel isn’t just creating jobs, he’s creating jobs that are hopefully pleasant to work at, because you don’t need to do everything yourself. I think that’s laudable.
Once again, as happened before the introduction of The Gauntlet, I do not have the expertise to comment on the finer points of this newest effort by Joel and company. If possible, I will do as before and just watch, no doubt missing many nuances, hoping for a laugh and an appreciation of the clever remarks. It will take me repeated viewings, but then I am still seeing new things every time I watch the original episodes.
As a huge fan of irony I give your comment a hearty thumbs up!
I know what you mean. While I understand his reasoning,I think banning 4:3 B&W films did not serve the show well. Most of my top favorite episodes are B&W. Mike and company have shown there is plenty of comedy gold yet to be mined in the mountains if film shot over the decades of the pre widescreen era.
I would wing walk on a Concorde(now that they are retired)for a reriff of SST Death Flight! The list of C list celebrities who are either on the way to the B list or D list is kind of fascinating to see. Plus it must be one of the very few airplane movies where the plane CRASHED!
… This is all very interesting–that is meant entirely without irony: it IS interesting–but it still begs the question of what is more fun to watch. Surely you can have a full crew as is required for a modern TV production, yet still not make it feel overly slick. Surely you can make sure that people aren’t overworked and burned out, and still have them act like this is more than a fun side-gig to their “real” career. THAT’S the point for me, not who’s in the crew. As for the ‘bots, as I’ve said many times before, my problem with the new show is that I have a hard time telling Crow and Servo apart. Not so much the voices, as their personalities. Sure, it’s fun that Servo can fly and Crow has all his limbs working–now make them characters as distinctive as Kevin and Trace/Bill made them. They don’t even have to be the same, just memorable. And for me, right now, they’re not. And all this, of course, doesn’t have anything to do with them choosing movies that are too awful to watch even with the riffing . . .
Well said, I was having trouble articulating it to myself. The original series crew may have been spread too thin, wearing too many hats, underpaid, etc. but at the end of the day they delivered something magical and tremendously fun to watch. There’s probably a little bit of “necessity being the mother of invention” in there, with a dash of lightning in a bottle.
But the new show is also fun to watch, and I’m optimistic that it will get even better with time. The bots have been a bit of a sore spot with me. It’s hard to put my finger on it, but their personalities feel “incomplete,” as if their directive now is “during each host segment, cause a little mayhem and antagonize the host.” It feels like the missing ingredient is their childlike behavior where Joel/Mike was a sort of father figure. The elaborate scheme to steal $.50 from Mike, Dog & Bear gone bad, Crow “running away from home” to the other side of the ship …
Crow was the class clown from middle school, seeking attention but not quite sure what to do with it when he got it. Servo was the confused intellectual, most comfortable with the A/V crowd but desperately wanting to hang around with the cool kids, too. The new bots feel somewhat like a blank slate, which I guess will just take time to fill out.
I have to keep telling myself this: it’s only been 2 seasons, let them get a feel for the show and for each other. I, too, am optimistic that it’ll get better with time.
So, the Kickstarter’s top goal is five and a half million dollars. Now, I don’t know how a TV operates, but that to me sounds like a modest budget. Even ten million would be reasonable. IFC could’ve been a good channel for new MST3K, but I guess it is just easier to show sitcom reruns.
Will Satellite News be pinning the Kickstarter “tote board” to the top of the homepage like last time?
TV network, that is.
Just checked. They’ve unlocked episodes 4-6, and sending out the Gizmoplex as an app. And I think they’ve added enough contributors for next week’s special webcast of “Quest of the Delta Knights”. I’m sure Joel will post an update soon. And there’s still 15 days to go.
Update 7 reveals more about their dastardly plans:
– Emily Marsh and the road show team will riff half(?) the new episodes.
– Joel will host 1-2 episodes! (if we reach $4.4m-$5.5m in pledges)
– A goal is to return the show to its DIY roots, reduce the costs of production, and make MST3K sustainable on an ongoing basis via the Gizmoplex.
The video and text at the update tells all. Or lots, at least:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mst3k/makemoremst3k/posts/3168008
As a fan from k-present, I’m very enthusiastic about the new direction! I’ve seen all the live shows and they were hands down some of the best shows of any live shows I’ve seen in my life. Plus, the Netflix ep, The Day Time Ended, is in my top 3 eps of all time! Looking so forward to Emily, Jonah, Joel, and the rest. Movie Sign!