This is going to be a long post but bear with me.
Backstory: Actress Susan Hart married James Nicholson, co-founder of American Int’l Pictures back in the 60s. When he died she got the rights to some of AIP’s films. Those include “It Conquered The World,” “Attack of the the Eye Creatures,” “I Was A Teenage Werewolf,” “Amazing Colossal Man” and “Terror From The Year 5000.”
In the late 90s, Susan started enforcing her claim on these films and hasn’t allowed them to be license or released in any format, holding up their corresponding official MST3K episode releases under Rhino and later Shout. She’s very litigious and notoriously hard to work with. She has never, ever licensed her films out and will sue at the drop of a hat.
In 2015, Shout released a documentary about AIP on Volume 34. In late 2018, Susan sued because the documentary included stills of the movies she owns the rights to. It went to Federal Court in Susan Nicholson Hofheinz v. Shout Factory, LLC et al.
For some ungodly reason the federal Pacer website requires you to pay for it, and thankfully I have a login, so I took screenshots of everything pertinent and have shared it into a gallery here.
So let me break down the legalese for those that can’t read it:
Susan sued Shout, Ballyhoo and Shout owner Jordan Fields.
The case went to mediation and nothing came of it.
Shout, et al., filed a motion for summary judgment, arguing Susan: A) has not proved ownership or renewal on the copyrights of said films; B) the clips used were allowable under the “fair use” doctrine and C) Susan has not sought to actively protect her works, as a quick Google search will show YouTube uploads of the full films she claims Shout infringed on.
Susan shortly thereafter filed a notice that she and Shout had reached a settlement in principle.
Since then, 4 Motions for Extension have been filed asking the court for more time to negotiate between the two parties to reach a final consummated settlement.
The most interesting things in the final, most-recent motion for extension, (which states why there have been so many of these) states that, in December, Shout asked Susan for 2 years license for physical releases, and stated that both parties are working out how to come to an agreement on this request and that both parties want to agree.
The actual notice of settlement didn’t indicate what exactly the settlement entailed, but this notice in the motion for extension effectively proves that Shout Factory is very close to licensing out the films for a large portion of the final, unreleased MST3K episodes.
Edit: Both parties filed a FOURTH motion for extension on 2/7/20. In it, they state that: As of this week, the material terms of the longform written agreement have been finalized and that the agreement is partially executed, but they need more time to finish execution and commence performance of the agreement. They requested an extension to March 13th.
Thanks very much to those Tarlcabot18 for studious work.
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Hobbies – Some people paint or sew. Others sue.
This is promising news! While none of the four Susan Hart episodes are all-time favorites of mine, I would still love to own them on DVD.
So, I guess this could mean “Rocketship X-M” and “Godzilla Vs. The Sea Monster” might end up being the last remaining two episodes not available on DVD. Unless there’s any others I’m missing.
Quest of the Delta Knights, which is the one I REALLY want to be released.
Really though, it amazes me just how petty some copyright holders can be. It’s not like she’s even done anything with these properties.
‘Terror From the Year 5000’ is the episode that made me a MSTie way back when. ‘I Was a Teenage Werewolf’, ‘It Conquered the World’, ‘Attack of the The Eye Creatures’ and ‘The Amazing Colossal Man’ are all classic episodes. Granted, they can all be easily found on YouTube, which only makes this whole situation even more ridiculous.
Rocketship X-M
Godzilla Vs. The Sea Monster
Fire Maidens of Outer Space
The Deadly Bees
The Space Children
Quest of the Delta Knights
A deal with Susan Hart would complete Seasons 3 and 8. That would leave only seasons 2, 4, and 9 incomplete.
someone out there seriously thinks this movie is too good for an MST3K DVD set?
According to Travis at Forrestcrow Proboards, Olive Films (licensed from Paramount). I’ve heard Warner Brothers consultant Jerry Beck repeatedly express disappointment with Olive and Paramount about their lack of responsiveness. According to him they simply don’t have anyone there who knows or gives a flying flip about their I.P.
Sometimes I wonder why people continue to refuse licensing on old films that can’t possibly still be making any money for the owners. Is it a matter of “I’ve fought this for thirty years, so by God, I’m not stopping now!” ???
Then that explains the difficulties with not only Fire Maidens, but also Space Children and Deadly Bees as well as all are under the Paramount/Olive umbrella at present. Toho won’t let a Godzilla movie out of their sight again, added to them giving the current physical media rights to Criterion for now. And Wade Williams has been quite clear about not letting Rocketship X-M, his childhood favorite, into an MST release.
That leaves the murkiness of whomever/whatever owns the rights to Quest of the Delta Knights.
And of course the five MSTed movies that Susan Hart has held the rights for and has previously been not interested in allowing them to be out there. So a Susan Hart-related MST box set would actually be the closest to seeing new episodes on Shout DVDs then apparently.
And furthermore, Hart owns the rights to Invasion of the Saucer Men, Zontar the Thing From Venus, Apache Woman, The Oklahoma Woman, I Was A Teenage Frankenstein, and Naked Paradise. If these all received a Scream/Shout Factory box set treatment as some sort of Corman/AIP themed set with commentaries and documentaries and the like, I would snap that up in a heartbeat.
So hopefully the legalese of Hart’s wants/needs/demands can be sorted out because the fans of the films are there, the MSTies being an obvious group that would jump at the chance to have official releases of this material.
She was such a gorgeous girl…They should Riff “Ghost in the Invisible Bikini” if it becomes available.
Shout was able to track down the Pumaman rights holders, so if they continue to search they may eventually turn up something on Delta Knights. Toho would have to change their mindset of the MST treatment from shameful disgrace to badge of honor. Shout restored and remastered some of their Godzilla films for HD, so there is some communication and good will there. Perhaps that could go a long way toward thawing the freeze on Sea Monster. I’m still holding out hope that someone at Olive/Paramount will come to their senses. They just need someone over there like Jerry Beck or Warner Archive’s George Feltenstein. Wade Williams is a special case. On the one hand, he did license out a couple of his films for MST to release on dvd. But I think he might be putting to much monetary value on Rocketship. There was a very public exchange on a forum a few years ago between himself and a film restoration company. They were making him offers and seemed prepared to bend over backwards to give him more than they would anyone else, but he just kept responding with “what offer?” As if he was insulted for being low balled. He probably just wants too much money from Shout for Rocketship and expects at least a 2001 Space Odyssey sized offer for it, if not a Star Wars sized offer. Then again, he did threaten that he put an entail on it so that after he dies it still can’t be used for MST.
Does Susan Hart not like money?
You’re right, Williams is a special case with this. And puzzling too. You’d think that at the very least he’d want to get X-M out on a specialty label of some sort, just to get some kind of return. Even going to VCI to get a X-M Blu-ray out would be something as that label is quirky enough with what’s available to release. As far as I remember the last physical media release was that ever-aging Image DVD for X-M. I’m sure that he thinks it is worth far more than it truly is and given the historical context, I suppose it does have some value simply for beating Destination Moon into theaters. And it has a good cast, most of whom went on to more well-known roles. But that’s about it.
He had to have made something for the other films he owned the rights to and licensed to Shout, right? But if he expects a king’s ransom, it makes me lean more towards his claim that X-M was a childhood favorite and he didn’t care for what MST did and he makes the offer outrageous just to discourage offers. But who knows.
And if magic can happen with Toho to get both Godzillas out in a special two movie MST set…that’d be great! I think if they were hurting for revenue they’d be more open to the idea. That huge Criterion set makes me think that at best, this is a long way off. But again, who knows? If Susan Hart can come to some terms with her catalog, then the sky’s the limit!
And Paramount/Olive is just weird too. I cannot imagine they are planning an incredible updated Blu-ray release for any of those 3 movies. And I like what Olive has done with things like The Quiet Man and Hannie Caulder, but the odds of that happening for something like The Space Children? I doubt that’s a front burner issue. You’d think they’d like to make something out of these back catalog titles. Even The Deadly Bees doesn’t have a marquee British star to market it well, so why not give it a whirl with a different label willing to do the legwork?
This all being said, who would have even imagined in our wildest MSTied dreams that almost the entire series would be available for purchase on any kind of format? I thought the Rhino tape sets and the Best Brains direct VHS tapes were the be all, end all on that front. And now we’re down to about ten titles?! Truly amazing in retrospect, isn’t it?
and if so, makes me wonder what kind of state of mind he is in (might just have to wait until 2045 for the movie to be in the Public Domain).
the same thing goes for Godzilla.
Or, as Moe Howard put it: “Oh, sue-perstitious, eh?”
Some MST3K DVD sets are too good for their movies.
Wade Williams is also the reason a pristine restoration of Robot Monster’s theatrical 3-D was made, but never saw the light of Blu-ray.
And how many remember the unfathomable, delusional jerkdom of “Blood Water of Dr. Z”‘s owner? That one was a struggle to get to disk.
That’s a story I wouldn’t mind hearing! I think I’d like it very much!
Seriously, was he hurt that “ZaAt” didn’t win an Oscar for that brilliant “weed of deceit” monologue? Or the gorgeous photography?
I would really love to see a formal release of It Conquered the World, MST and uncut. It’s nice that Ms. Hart is finally willing to consider options towards the release of the movies she holds onto. Let’s hope for the best.
There is a type of personality that will withhold something that others want (even though that something is of no value or interest or them) for no other reason than to be petty and mean-spirited. They’ll hold out because they can. Perhaps it’s a trait common to ‘business’ minded types, or perhaps it imbues them with some small semblance of power …who knows?
There are numerous colorful pejoratives and epithets that can be accurately used to describe such people.
Just wanted to say that I hope this means Shout can release the movies she owns on Blu-Ray as well as the MST3K episodes. IMO Invasion of the Saucermen and Teenage Werewolf are pretty good movies and it’s really dumb that we can’t watch them except for crappy versions somebody uploaded to YouTube.
Off topic: It’s interesting they haven’t released “Fire Maidens”. Multicom Entertainment Group have it on Amazon Prime and they’ve licensed a lot of stuff to Riffrax.
That’s actually not true. Don Barton was one of the first to license o Shout!. The reason he scuffle was over the fact that Sci-Fi never properly licensed the film from him when the episode was aired.
(COUGH!…ahemcoughwheezechoke!!) (casual wave-away)
Sorry. Something in the throat.
Wasn’t part of it some self-delusional rant campaign in response about how he was going to take ZaAt back on the festival circuit as a “newly discovered cult classic”, thus re-tying ups the rights? While ago, can’t recall.
I’m sure he has some degree of pride in the film, as most filmmakers of MST films do, but the people who I’ve talked to who knew him said he really didn’t mind the riffing. He was upset that they didn’t properly get permission from him as the copyright holder.
Fire Maidens not being on disk hurts a lot, it’s my favorite Joel episode. Hopefully Shout! can get the rights some day.
Since DVDs continue to become less and less common, when the Hart deal is finalized, could Ballyhoo (as a longterm backup) also make all the Hart material available on vinyl? Thank you.
Wait a second….
The House of Hart will combine forces with the House of Ballyhoo and destroy the white walkers and their king.
Nevermind. I’m having a Led Zeppelin flashback moment.
As you were.
Yeah, the omission of that one is especially pretty darn painful. I’ve got a DAP version that will have to suffice for now until Shout cracks the Olive/Paramount code or the rights become available.
Genre historian Tom Weaver weighs in with a quote from Hart herself:
“Here comes the wet blanket (me).
Susan Hart called today to gossip about this and that, and I told her about this thread — the claim that she’s making a deal with Shout and her pictures will soon start appearing. I knew what she’d say before she said it:
“That’s ridiculous. A total fabrication! I’m giving Shout the rights to nothing. NNNNNNNNNNNNoth-thing.”
“I can post that?”
“Please!”
The End
An American International Picture”
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/monsterkidclassichorrorforum/susan-hart-licensing-deal-t76137-s40.html#p1523067
And we’ll continue to watch our bootleg copies anyway. It sucks for Shout, though, to own these specific MST episodes and not be able to do jack **** with them, other than hopefully preserve the master tapes for future generations. I remember an interview with Jordan Fields a while back where he said he had a good feeling about the Susan Hart titles, so despite her sobering statement of soul-crushing defiance issued through a fan forum we really have no idea as to exactly what is happening between her and Shout behind closed doors.
Indeed. When I saw that quote I honestly had a hard time deciding whether it was being facetious or not. Besides the fact that if it were true such gossip throws a huge wrench into what must be very delicate negotiations (why would someone outside the legal procedure even bring it up?), it’s over-the-top nature (NNNNNNNNNNNNoth-thing!) gives me pause. Furthermore, if we were still actually no closer to these films being released than we were before this news broke, then why have the court proceedings dragged on through four extensions?
To me, something just isn’t adding up.
She’s probably not used to being on the receiving end of legal pressure, so I imagine that she’s seething toward Shout for daring to put her in such a position. It’s probably even more aggravating for her that without MST those films are practically worthless.
i hope Shout takes her to court over this (if she never wanted to put the movies out she was not bargaining in good faith and was just going through the motions).
I just now realized that Susan Hart is “Bonnie” in Season 1’s “The Slime People.”
Damn, she was cute back then. Honestly, based on stories I’ve heard about her, I always imagined her looking more… I dunno… trailer trash-y.
Unless it’s a completely different Susan Hart in that film.
Well she is 78 at least…
sounds like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz-8CSa9xj8
Oh, no, that’s the same Susan Hart. If you haven’t already, check out her career on imdb.com–a LOT of beach movies.
After reading through the comments, just checking–everybody’s aware that most or all of these are available in Those Places I’m Not Allowed to Mention Here, right? As an exercise, I’ve
Also, IWAT-AW, for instance, is on archive-dot-org, whose whole shtick is that everything they’ve got is, to the best of their knowledge, in the public domain. If I were much younger and had a lot more time, I’d like to hunt down just exactly the Actual True Facts are in all this. For someone supposedly holding on to those rights with both hands, there’s a whole lot of free copies floating around, including on Amazon Prime.
Theres lots of stuff on Archive that is NOT in the public domain. They don’t have the ability to check every video before uploading.
I love that we’re rooting for someone to die so we can get episodes of Television show released to DVD.
I wouldn’t expect them to check–it’d be the rights owner, on them like an avenging angel. And Ms. Hart sounds like she’s not been the least bit shy about defending her turf.
Ultron: “They really did take everything from me.”
Vision: “You set the terms. You can change them.”
Ultron: “All right.” (immediately tries to kill Vision)
Only she’s not “defending her turf”–her “turf” in this case is like a weedy vacant lot in another town that she can’t do anything with but she won’t let anyone else even walk on it just because it’s “hers”.
If her turf is so stank, why is there so much ongoing conversation on mst3k about it?
Because people want to see the MST episodes featuring those movies.
I’ve followed this thread over on the Monster Kid Classic Horror Forum once this was linked on Satellite News, and it is good to see that the horror/sci-fi/B-movie fans over there for the most part are just as befuddled about Susan Hart’s comments. Some over there couldn’t care a lick for MST3k, they just want a good copy of Amazing Colossal Man and/or Invasion of the Saucer Men and the like on Blu-ray. They see the Arkoff side of the AIP house getting nice transfers and special features at Shout/Scream and Kino Lorber and see Hart’s baker’s dozen worth of pictures languishing on the precipice to irrelevancy.
And ultimately, I don’t get it. I mean I can see Hart having an issue with Shout, given the legal back and forth she’s had with them over their using clips and Fair Use and the whohah and flapdoodle there. But what are her motivations and seeming glee in not licensing these films out? The fans who are currently above ground would like to see them given some TLC for home video release/theatrical re-release, etc. I for one would love to see/hear some words from those that made these films and as long as Roger Corman and Bert I. Gordon are still able to talk about these movies, I think a special edition would do fairly well. The niche fanbase is out there, Shout/Scream, Kino, Vinegar Syndrome, Twilight Time, Arrow, and even Criterion have shown that the fanbase is there.
But she says no for whatever reason. I know there are probably other rights holders that have been screwed out of royalties and merchandising and reboot/remake rights and their slice of the pie, but one would think that given her legal-minded approach, her attorneys would ensure her not getting shafted.
Ultimately, the shelf-life for these films have an expiration date that looms ever closer. If she is asking the beyond the moon for these films, like Kino Lorber has intoned, then I would safely assume think that she never has any intention for a release, given the tone she used with Tom Weaver. I suppose that she’s none too concerned with the historical interest in her late husband either. The Monster Kids get ever older, the historians like Weaver and Greg Mank and Ted Newsom get grayer, the directors that grew up enjoying these movies like Joe Dante and John Landis start to pass away and the clock keeps on ticking.
One of the biggest problems in reminding the public of the importance of Harold Lloyd in the field of silent comedy was the fact that Lloyd pulled his films out of circulation for so long that people simply forgot, the fans moved on, the co-stars passed away. Meanwhile Chaplin and Keaton garnered the lion’s share of attention. Only after decades of obscurity and some clip movies did Lloyd eventually earn a reevaluation and rediscovery so many years later. Then Kino put out some of Lloyd’s short films and New Line, of all places, put out that great DVD box set and fans who never had a chance to see any of Lloyd’s movies were finally able to enjoy Safety Last and The Freshman.
Not that I even think that AIP ranks with Harold Lloyd, but film history is film history. So many films are lost that cannot be released or restored, but here is an instance where the history is deliberately being denied and it drives me crazy.
So at this point, I can rely on bootleg MST episodes and my Rhino VHS of Amazing Colossal Man and that’s how it has to be. Because I’ll believe it when I see it when it comes to Susan Hart and these films.
Susan the Sadist
Not necessarily a sadist, maybe just someone who enjoys the feeling of power she gets in having something that so many people want.