Meanwhile RiffTrax has released a riff for the classic ’30s drug scare movie “Reefer Madness.” If you own the previously released Mike-solo-riff DVD, this track will work with it. If you don’t there is also an option to download a “video-on-demand” version that includes both the movie and the riffing.
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Next from RiffTraxThe next RiffTrax Live online riff will be Wednesday, Jan 28 at 9 p.m. Eastern/6 p.m. Pacific. It will be a live riff of the short “Overcoming Fear.” More details here.
31 Replies to “Next from RiffTrax”Commenting at Satellite News
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Hot on the heels of CT doing SCCTM over again…
Though I gotta’ admit, the clip was a lot funnier than just Mike’s commentary.
I hope people don’t attack me, but…
Speaking as a long-time MST3K fan, I have to say, Rifftrax is just…not that funny. I really think that Mike and the others are just spent when it comes to writing clever, sharp-witted humor. (And personally, when they laugh at every other joke, that really grates on my nerves. They started doing that stuff during the Sci-Fi years.)
Oh well, if it still speaks to some people, then I guess it’s a good thing. But I think it’s kind of like the Star Wars fanatic who can’t admit that the prequels are crap.
Re:#2 – As another long time MST3K fan, I think it’s just a matter of taste. Personally, I happen to love Rifftrax – but on the other hand, I don’t see any funny in Cinematic Titanic, which lots of other people love.
“But I think it’s kind of like the Star Wars fanatic who can’t admit that the prequels are crap.”
I think that’s going a little far, just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s without merit.
Getting this it will be interesting to see a three man attack on this movie. Really looking back at the history of the movie it really lends itself to be mocked with a group.
To support John’s position, as someone who prefers Mike v. Joel, I can say that I’m not so sure the trio is as *consistently* funny in RT as they were doing MST3K.
It’s very odd — I do think The Film Crew’s work (that four film release) is not only on par with anything MST3K did but perhaps even superior. There the writing is superb, the delivery perfect, and I consider it part of the MST3K mythos.
After that — both CT and RT are a LOT more hit and miss (now, I have to qualify this because I don’t buy any RT except for the shorts. I *did* get “Battlefield Earth” but that’s been it for the movies). I’ve been watching MST3K in order again (right in the middle of season six right now) and while they did have their duds from time to time once they hit their stride from around season 3 on they rarely were anything less than hilarious, not only from movie to movie but from within the total length of the movie.
RT and CT seem to have brilliant moments in any presentation, and then a whole lot of misses, far more than MST3K ever did. Perhaps it’s because there are less writers? Although CT seems to have a boatload of people — but they don’t have Mike as head writer. And RT only has the three writers. So maybe they just need to get together to hit the brilliance that was once MST3K (but that doesn’t explain how great The Film Crew was. Sigh).
I’m going to buy this one because one of my knocks on RT is them doing the newer, current films (and I never got the version where Mike took it on alone). And, truth be told, I’m just glad we have these guys doing this work, even if it’s not their best anymore (in some ways it’s a little like watching athletes past their prime — from time to time they can still hit it out of the park, just not as consistently as they once did. We all get old :>)
Mike K’s assessment really sums it up. Ditto, I guess. Both CT and RT can be hit-or-miss, but I keep supporting them (well, mostly, because the Rifftrax I buy is the on-demand video only) because I don’t want either crew to stop trying. When they “hit”, it’s still worth it to me even if its not perfect.
#2/#3 I would disagree that RiffTrax are not that funny. But I’d echo the comment that they are up and down. Their home runs are still home runs. (I love “Over the Top,” “Star Wars Episode 1,” “Road House,” the RiffTrax Present’s “Spiderman 2,” and Weird Al guesting on “Jurasic Park.” On the other hand I was very dissappointed by “The Matrix,” “Spiderman,” “X-Men,” and despite being a huge fan of guest star Fred Willard I thought “Missle to the Moon” fell pretty flat. That said this up and down nature doesn’t surprise me because I felt the same about the MST3K Sci-Fi years.
On the other hand my favorite MST host was definitely Joel (not trying to re-ignite that old flame war because I like them both and it is tough for me to pick a favorite) yet I feel Cinematic Titanic so far hasn’t been that good. They are only six releases into that project and to me it feels like they are still shaking off the rust. I still have high hopes its quality will reach that of the Joel MST years.
As for the stuff these two projects chooses to riff, I’m glad we have two projects doing two different things. I like the classic riff fodder that Cinematic Titanic is doing. But I always wished blockbusters would get it too and for that I love the new dimension RiffTrax brings us.
So at present even though I like Joel better RiffTrax is my favorite project. But I eargerly anticipate new releases of both.
I’m hoping 2009 is a better year for rifftrax. While i enjoyed rifftrax in it’s earliest form (my favorite is still Predator, riffed only by Mike), 2008 certainly did not groove with me. As John said, it simply wasn’t funny. When i saw Jurassic Park, i was so shocked at how unfunny it was that i stopped halfway through (sometime after Al made a joke about having three dvd players in his limo).
Either way, by going back to what Mike first riffed after MST3K, it seems like they are “starting over”, reconnecting with the silly movies that made MST so great. I hope this is a sign of great things to come.
This one looks like a winner
@ John #2, Everyone is entitled to their own tastes, and I would definitely say I personally don’t really like it when they do movies like “Raider’s of the Lost Ark” or “The Dark Knight” that actually are really good films, but when it comes to the shorts they do, and the rifftrax that are for terrible films (The Happening for instance) they are great. I got The Happening last week and I was laughing very hard throughout the entire film. And I absolutely love the shorts. Occasionally Mike comes off a little artificial sounding or overdoes it so that the jokes don’t work, but it’s not all that often. There is one particular moment in one of the shorts where he says something REALLY funny that is also kind of disgusting when it actually registers with you what it actually implies, and then he goes ahead and completely ruins it by saying “thaaats right…” in a “suave” sounding voice. It truly ruins the joke because instead of just letting it’s implied meaning work on the audience it gets pushed too far, and becomes way too obvious. It’s the kind of joke that would have worked brilliantly on MST if Joel or Crow had just innocently and briefly said it, and after a split second Tom would have lightly mumbled something like “well I don’t… huh?”. I do think that Film Crew worked so well because it was more much refined like MST. I’m sure they spent a much longer time working on each episodes script, and I have a feeling that Rifftrax is a much quicker process, and doesn’t go through the same amount of rewriting and fine tuning that Film Crew and MST episodes did. That might be some of what is happening in CT as well. Since they all live scattered throughout the country, and are also involved in working on other things as well, perhaps they don’t get to spend as much time writing and rewriting, and distilling the jokes down quite as much as they did with MST when it was their full time pursuit, and they all lived in the same city and just came in to the offices each day to write or record the shows. Even with those circumstances I still think CT is more brilliant than not, and when Rifftrax is good it’s great. Again the Rifftrax shorts are usually golden.
I have been Anti-Rifftrax ever since I found out about it…but this might be my first actual purchase from them.
I enjoyed Mike’s take on Reefer Madness, and since I already have the DVD, I’ll just need to buy the track. Having these three attack the movie should be fun, since Mike couldn’t cover all the bizarre stuff going on in the movie on his own.
If only Rifftrax would do movies like “The Film Crew” did…then I would buy them all. Sure, do a few new trendy movies every so often, but the older films are always gold.
OK, overly asking my questions here I’m sure since I just now got a laptop with a DVD burner in it.
#1: A prior post answered that the first two audio Rifftrax (Plan 9 and NOTLD) were different than the commentary on the DVDs released by Legend Films. So the VODs for those same movies: the exact same Rifftrax?
#2: the other VODs of Legend Films (House on Haunted Hill, Reefer Madness, Carnival Of Souls & Little Shop), are these new Rifftrax seeing as how there are no audio versions listed before? Or the comments from the DVD?
Anyone? Anyone?
Also, any ballpark figures (Month, date or season) when we can see a Best of Rifftrax Shorts Vol. 2?
Cronkite,
Ah, I think you got it — your explanation makes perfect sense as to why (to me, at least) the Film Crew projects were perfection whereas both CT and RT seem sort of “half-baked”.
Writing is truly everything — let’s face it, Mike, Joel and all of the company know how to deliver this stuff having done it tens of thousands of times. But if the writing isn’t polished it just ain’t funny, and I just don’t think they are spending the time on the writing they need to.
I’ll still buy all the CT stuff (and RT shorts) and be thankful they can make me smile at the worst (and laugh out loud when they do hit it out of the park). I do know that with the live CT performances they are trying to hone their material so it does have a greater potential of getting there. But I guess, given all their schedules and such, that we’ll never see the perfection again that was MST3K.
I wish people would quit whining about RT and CT. I’ll agree that neither are quite up to MST3K standards, but they are pretty close. RT suffers from not having access to movies of MST3K-level incompentence, and CT’s delivery is still a bit stiff (and their movie selection hasn’t been the best). Even so, they’re both very good.
I admit, though, that I’m a little annoyed by these redos.
“Oh well, if it still speaks to some people, then I guess it’s a good thing. But I think it’s kind of like the Star Wars fanatic who can’t admit that the prequels are crap.”
Please do not confuse your opinion with fact. On anything.
Thank you.
eegah,
I don’t think holding either RT or CT up to MST3K standards is “whining” in any shape or form. Let’s face it — they both invite this.
Mike, Joel, et. al are definitely competing against their former efforts — and I’m *sure* they want to be as good or better than what they did before (otherwise the only point is to make money). So they are legitimate game for any critique along this line and if we MST3K fans can’t offer this criticism fairly, who can?
I still have great hope for CT, but I don’t think it’s the choice of material that’s the problem. I truly think Cronkite has the best explanation I’ve heard for why these efforts just aren’t up to MST3K quality *consistently*. But that’s not to say they can’t aspire (and even obtain) that quality.
RT is a whole other problem for me in that I disagree strongly with their choice of current popular films — but that’s just me and I do not critique their efforts with those (because I don’t bother buying them). However, I do buy all their shorts and I feel I have the right to express my opinion about them (which is they just aren’t as well done as when MST3K used to do shorts; not as consistently funny by any means, and I do think it’s because they don’t spend enough time on them).
I have the Mike version, found it VERY funny- actually saw this film back in the 70’s at Michigan State in a haze of… well you know.
Mike “ex-genius” Kelley,
I just get tired of every thread about a new RT release containing the same general complaints about RT. I suppose it only becomes “whining” if the someone posts the same complaint in multiple threads.
And RT doesn’t really have a choice about using popular films. They have to select movies that are readily available on DVD.
Can we get over the “Rifftrax uses new movies and that’s bad!” thing? They use new movies because when they use old, obscure crap no one goes to the trouble of buying the dvds and the RiffTrax. They can’t make everything video on demand like this movie, so they make trax based on popular/recent movies. That’s why they do it.
Making money is not selling out — doing something you don’t enjoy for the purpose of making money is selling out. Selling mp3 commentaries making fun of the Dark Knight for $4 a pop is not making these guys rich.
And, btw, I can 100% assure you that Joel did not decide to do CT out of the kindness of his heart, but so that he and his friends could make a living. Is he selling out? Of course not.
I thought RiffTrax already did ‘Reefer Madness’ around the very beginning ??? I remember saying to myself ‘Reefer Madness … that is a lame choice …’ Well … it still is, multiplied beyond comprehension if they already did this one … !
#12 – Speedy: You seem a little confused, so I’ll try and lay this out for anyone trying to keep track. Before Rifftrax came out, Mike was doing solo commentary tracks for a series of Legend Films DVDs. When they first started Rifftrax, the solo commentaries for Plan 9 and NOTLD were recycled as Rifftrax MP3s for people who didn’t feel like watching the Legend Film colorized versions. When Rifftrax started providing VODs, all the Legend Films releases were recycled as VODs for people who didn’t feel like buying the DVD versions. One year ago, Mike decided to revisit Plan 9 with Kevin and Bill and release it as a Three Riffer Edition. This is available as an MP3 and VOD. Same deal with Reefer Madness. NOTLD will be getting the same treatment in April. The point is they’re just using multiple delivery systems for the same one or two products. If you’ve already heard Mike do a solo commentary on a movie, you don’t have to buy any other version of the solo Mike track. Just keep an eye out for the stuff that says “Three Riffer”. That’s the new material.
There’s no definite street date for the next Rifftrax Shorts DVD. The first DVD has been selling very well, so I’m sure Vol. 2 is on the way. In the meantime, you can check out Josh Way’s “Fun With Shorts” DVDs if you haven’t already. For those who don’t know, Josh Way is a writer on official Rifftrax releases and Incognito Cinema Warriors XP.
Here’s a thread with links to some of his releases:
http://forum.rifftrax.com/index.php/topic,12378.msg380316.html#msg380316
#20 – Smog Monster: Mike originally provided a solo commentary for the film’s DVD release. Although it was recycled as a Rifftrax VOD title, it’s a bit different than a “real” Rifftrax. There are are three reasons to revisit it:
1) They know they can make a better product with more riffers and writers involved in the production.
2) They know some customers are only interested in buying products that feature multiple performers riffing on the film.
3) They know that some customers are only interested in buying products from the VOD catalog.
I honestly don’t understand why you think a film like Reefer Madness would be a “lame choice” for a Rifftrax, but to each his own.
By the way, I agree with Eegah and Jason that some of the criticisms about Rifftrax can be a bit monotonous at times.
Yeah, cause I forget who, but I was told the rifftrax from Jan 2006 for Plan 9 and NOTLD were different than Mike’s commentary that was already ON the Legend Films/Off Color Films DVDs. They told me that some of the jokes overlap but the solo rifftrax was different. This is where I get confused. If they are commentaries from the DVDs sold seperate, I don’t need them. So I guess that means that Road House is the first (New in a sense) Rifftrax? I do have the 6 releases with his commentary (RM, NOTLD, COS, HOHH, Plan 9 & Little Shop). This really helps me out, for the longest time I have Plan 9 and Night as RT#1 & 2, but I suppose Road House is now RT#1. Thanks for the info Ford.
#22 – Speedy: Yes, Road House was the first MP3 commentary that was created especially for the Rifftrax website. If you’re collecting Legend Films DVDs you might want to also check out Swing Parade (with Mike Nelson commentary), Three Stooges In Color (Hosted by Mike, Kevin, and Bill), Three Stooges Greatest Routines (Hosted by Mike and Kevin), Missle to the Moon (Mike and Fred commentary sold seperately), Forbidden Zone, (no commentary, just a weird movie), and ICWXP: Lady Frankenstein. These are also available as VODs and the one for Missle to the Moon includes the commentary merged with the video.
Actually, if anyone goes to the trouble to pay attention you’d see that I don’t criticize RT for their pick of current films, but rather say I find the writing of the shorts not to be up to the same quality of MST3K. And thus it’s not the “same old tired criticism” of RT.
And others are also not understanding (or purposefully twisting) something I said to make it sound like folks shouldn’t do these things for money. What I SAID was that if the parties in question weren’t trying to be as good as they had been in the past then they were ONLY doing it for the money, which is a far different thing. And in any case (before someone dimwitted here tries and twists this around still again) I never said that was the case. I DO NOT think either Joel or Mike (and their respective crews) are doing these things just for the money — that’s the whole point of what I was trying to say. I think they want it to be every bit as good as their former work, and thus that’s why it’s fair to take them to task when it isn’t.
I will buy all the “old stuff” that RT does, including this one. Just because it isn’t as good as the work they did on “The Film Crew” doesn’t mean it isn’t worth having.
Finally, if someone’s thinking that RT chooses current films because that way anyone can match up the audio to the release I think they are WAY off base. There are TONS of older films available and many (if not most) are available in “standard” releases, so this just doesn’t hold water. The mere fact that such films as “Plan 9” and “Reefer Madness” are being done is proof of this. I think I’m on very safe ground in saying the decision to do current films is a conscious decision on Mike’s part — he wants to go in a different direction and really enjoys riffing on current stuff. I just don’t happen to agree with this and won’t buy it but I also won’t ding him on this (in this particular case I’m “voting” with my dollars).
Mike Kelley,
It’s just easier for them to use widely available movies, most of which happen to be recent releases. Public domain movies have a somewhat limited selection, especially since they’ve already draw from that well for MST3K. Plus, the selection process is more time-intensive. Non-public domain, difficult-to-find titles would be cost-prohibitive because they would need to pay for the rights to use them.
You’re right, Eegah. Fans who loved “The Film Crew” DVDs need to remember the guys were using carefully selected public domain films for those releases four years ago. (They weren’t trying to negotiate film rights like Cinematic Titanic currently is.) Public domain feature films are tougher to find these days. It’s difficult to find ones that actually work as subjects for a riff and don’t have horrible prints or something. (That’s why it’s nice to have a film restoration group like Legend backing them up.) Plus it’s become a legal minefield with people buying back up properties that were long presumed to be in the public domain. They not only have to find films that no one has laid claims to, but films that people probably won’t want to lay claim to. They don’t have to worry about that problem as much with Rifftrax.
“At present the bigger titles — and the NEWER titles — sell way, way better than anything more obscure. This is true about certain movie genres, too. And I don’t mean a small difference, but 80% less revenue.” – Bill Corbett
I’m not going to try convincing people to watch certain riffs if they don’t want to. Just remember that Rifftrax is trying to focus on what most customers seem to want, based on what sells well. Unfortunately, it seems like most Rifftrax customers don’t want to go through the effort of finding “old stuff” on their own. If Rifftrax customers already have it, if it’s new, or if they can feasibly provide you with it, it sells better. I think their work for Rifftrax is just as good as their previous efforts, but everyone has their own opinions.
Well, eegah is *way* off base — there is no truth to the argument because RT doesn’t pay for film rights anyway. So they don’t have to worry about finding public domain movies.
Now, Ford is more on base if Bill is saying that doing older films just don’t sell (because the RT customers don’t want to go to the trouble of finding these old films on their own).
However, I don’t see where RT even offers these. IOW, how many actual old movie riffs (aside from the VOD stuff they sell) has RT actually tried? Particularly genre related films, like any of the Ray Harryhausen stuff, or any Roger Corman films? I just don’t see that they’ve even *tried* to do this stuff. It’s hard to match up sales statistics when you don’t do something.
But, as I said, I vote with my own dollars. I’ll only buy RT shorts or, as in the case with what this thread is all about, “Plan 9”. But I do not in any way think RT is as good as their old work, and I don’t think I’m alone in feeling this way.
The MP3 format allows them a lot of freedom. However, Rifftrax not paying for film rights isn’t an absolute when it comes to other stuff. They had to make a deal with the rights holder when they performed “Over The Top” live and when they started offering “Troll 2” as a VOD. If they want to have a VOD catalog with a wide variety of titles, then they either have to see if they can cut a deal for rights or find something usable in the public domain, like the shorts.
To give you an idea of what I’m talking about, take “Missle to the Moon.” It’s from 1958. It’s exactly the type of film they would have done on MST3K or The Film Crew. Heck, they even had Fred Willard as a guest riffer. It’s STILL one of the worst selling Rifftrax MP3s. The VOD version did a bit better, but again that’s because the customer doesn’t have to go to any extra effort to get a DVD copy of the film. Mike likes riffing stuff from the 80’s like “Over The Top”, but that doesn’t sell too well either. Rifftrax Presents, VOD, and iRiffs were started to try and offer more variety.
Perhaps Presents and iRiffs would be more to your liking. If you honestly think that we are “off base”, you are more than welcome to start up a conversation at the Rifftrax Roundtable. Keep in mind though, this would not be the first time this has been discussed.
MK: Well, eegah is *way* off base — there is no truth to the argument because RT doesn’t pay for film rights anyway. So they don’t have to worry about finding public domain movies.
:roll:
They would have to pay for rights to the types of films that you are talking about. Very few older, riffable films are readily available for people to rent/buy. And if movies are not readily available, RT would have to package them with the riff for download/purchase. That would require purchasing rights.
I doubt that anyone is still reading this. However I thought I’d point out that, despite what Mr. Kelley says, there IS a Roger Corman movie available for download on the Rifftrax site. Josh Way has a VOD for “The Wasp Woman” that’s available in the iRiffs section. You can also get it on DVD here: http://www.joshway.com/dvds/ (This riff was made before the Cinematic Titanic version came out for those of you keeping track.) The reason he’s able to do this is because this film is in the public domain. Most Corman and Harryhausen films are not. Legend Films has had some dealings with Harryhausen about colorizing some of his films for DVD release, so VODs and official DVD commentary tracks for those might be possible someday.
Oh, Little Shop of Horrors is another Corman film. Forgot that one. :roll: