So is there there a MSTed movie you think might be a little too good? What do you think got the Brains thinking it was good fodder?
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Weekend Discussion Thread: MSTed Movies that Maybe Are a Little TOO GoodAs I said in this week’s episode guide, “The Projected Man,” while no “Citizen Kane,” might almost have been TOO good for MST3K. I think they got a little excited about Bryant Haliday being in the movie and didn’t think much further.
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there are actually a few. but for me i’m going with ‘Tormented’ and ‘Girl from Lover’s Lane.’
I always thought this was the problem with Hamlet. Yes, it’s a dull rendition of the play, but the underlying play is still a little too good to stand up to the riffs.
Marooned. You guys are slipping.
There are a number of them. Hamlet, of course, although not a dreary, German public tv type version.
Time Chasers actually has an interesting plot and some nice Vermont scenary.
If Tormented had had a bit of a rewrite it could have had a nice film noire
feel to it, maybe even not have Six (VI) die, but “torment” and blackmail RC.
I kind of like The Crawling Eye for a similar atmosphere to Tormented.
And any with Beverley Garland and Allison Hayes (even Roger Corman productions).
Worst productions have to be the Japanese monster movies and tv episodes made
into movies.
Fortunately even most of the “good” films used as MST fodder are at least in some way “cheesy” as the song proclaims (“The Deadly Bees,” “Revenge of the Creature,” “Mitchell,” etc.) and not so good that they’re engrossing, so they end up working (sometimes very well) as riffing targets. A few, though, are actually competent enough that you get caught up in the story and the riffing becomes distracting (even when it’s funny): “Gorgo,” “Diabolik” and “Squirm” are just a few I’d put in that category. This is why I’ve never agreed conceptually with where RiffTrax has gone. Sure, you can find comedy in “Titanic,” “Inception,” “Harry Potter” or almost anything if you’re looking for it (heck, “Les Miserables” might be hilarious), but why would you? There’s enough cheesy crap out there to redeem with laughter. “The Matrix” works just fine without zingers.
While there are movies that are interesting on their own merits (many of the early season 8 films), and, “Squirm”- nothing is off limits in my eyes. Once the can of riff whoop ass got busted out 25 years ago the cinematic world changed.
I would say the best movie riffed by the MST guys would be way way way back in the KTMA days, with PHASE IV, the weird Saul Bass intelligent ant movie. Non-KTMA? Well, that would be on almost the exact opposite end of the series, with the finale, DIABOLIK.
“Parts: The Clonus Horror”, while poorly executed on some levels, was kind of a decent movie with an interesting plot. I think that it was those poor execution points that made the movie good riffing fodder for the Brains (because while I did kind of like the movie, the riffing on this one is also really excellent). Maybe it was the “70s-ness” of it that made it seem a little corny? Also, the leading man couldn’t have been any less compelling. I get that the clones were supposed to be naive, and rather stupid since they were only needed for their “parts” not their intelligence, but their acting was pretty bad. The “Too-tight Munsingwear” uniforms were also pretty funny.
I’ll second Parts: The Clonus Horror. It was hampered by a low budget and some poor acting, but the plot, I think, isn’t bad at all. I find the film intriguing enough that, go easy on me, I’ve actually enjoyed it unriffed (nevertheless, the MST’d version is a riot; I watched this ep again the other night and laughed like an idiot the whole way through).
Same deal with Time Chasers, as well. A bit too ambitious for the budget they had, some bad acting, but a surprisingly decent film anyway.
Some of the early season 8 eps, while not exactly good, are still pretty watchable: namely, Revenge Of The Creature, The Mole People, The Deadly Mantis, and I Was A Teenage Werewolf. All incredibly cornball, but as far as 1950’s horror/sci-fi goes, they’re really not that bad.
Also, 411 – The Magic Sword, it’s actually pretty decent. Don’t they make that observation at one point during the episode, too?
I don’t recall this happening all that often on MST3K; I’m sure there were quite a few times it did, but few stand out.
A strange semi-example for me are the Godzilla films. Make no mistake, they are great fodder for riffs, but I grew up with these movies as a kid and to this day I can just kind of chill out to them, and even get into the monster battles, and riffing can be a be distracting from that (though certainly it’s welcome in the gratuitous dubbing scenes, or in those weird moments like when Godzilla does that bizarre jet-propulsion move).
The strongest example of “too good to riff” that I’ve seen, though, by far, was from Rifftrax. Specifically, the recent live show riffing “Night of the Living Dead.” Rifftrax has riffed a number of movies I’ve enjoyed (like “Casablanca”) and while I’m all for them trying new things and riffing whatever they feel like, I must admit I just have less interest in these things. I don’t disagree with the decision to do it, I mean I’m sure every movie has an audience who’d love to see it riffed, it’s just less of a draw for me overall. I like seeing cheesy movies riffed…it just sort of conjures the right “atmosphere” set up by the original show, that special late night local horror show host/puppet show/mocking a movie with your friends in an empty theater-vibe I love so much.
The riffing on “Night of the Living Dead” wasn’t bad at all, I just think that’s a REALLY good, engrossing movie (and I’m not a fan of the zombie genre at all aside from that one film) and I found myself wanting to pay more attention to the movie (despite being the third time I’ve seen it) than to the jokes.
I gotta agree with most of the other commentators here. The original, European cut of “The Crawling Eye” (which I own unriffed as well as the ep) is actually QUITE good, I’d say at the level of a cheap Hammer film. I think the film simply got a bad reputation over here, specifically, because most people who saw it saw the dragged-behind-a-truck print of the inferior American version, which does make the movie kinda suck. Same for “Gorgo.” While it’s tougher to pin down exactly why that film has such a bad reputation, it’s far superior to the other European Godzilla knockoff of the early 1960’s, “Reptilicus.” In fact, that would’ve made a spectacular episode, but that’s the problem with a show like this: once it becomes popular, the studios become really stingy with the rights. Even though neither of them are that special, either, I’m also quite fond of “Village of the Giants” and “The Deadly Mantis,” mainly because I’d seen and loved those movies as a kid. As a result, XXVII is now my favorite box set.
Surprised nobody has mentioned the Russo-Finnish movies, yet. Well made, beautiful scenery, but goofy as hell and hilarious with riffs.
Maybe this is just me, but I always found “The Beatniks” to be a fairly interesting movie, and for that reason I have never been able to really get into the riffing on that one.
I watched Escape 2000 minus the riffing with its actual title, “Escape from the Bronx”. I like this movie a lot.
On the technical side, the soundtrack is amazing, particularly Trash’s theme when he faces and shoots down a helicopter (absolutely hysterical scene, by the way). The pyrotechnics and other effects along with the stunt work and choreography are mostly excellent. Consider the exploding squibs when the helicopter fires at Trash (“Those squibs were meant for me!”), along with the explosions throwing bodies everywhere. Now consider the feebleness of something like Warrior of the Lost World, with people shaking their guns to Lazer Tag sound effects and stuntmen taking feeble falls to the pretend gunfire. While I love the riffing of Escape 2000, I think Mike and the Bots ignore the dangerous stuntwork and how convincing it all looks. I’m pretty sure Mark Gregory (Trash) was the one hanging onto a ladder as debris rained down on him, as well as the one who threw himself through a window for a painful landing (“There was supposed to be a mat there!”). Even the smaller scenes like Trash riding a motorcycle up and down the stairs obviously took practice and add some texture to the movie. There’s neat cinematography that adds some depth to the scenes. Look at the camera moving between the wall for the scene with Trash’s parents, or the camera moving beneath the floor in a sewer scene. When Clark (the “Monopoly guy”) is shot by Wangler (Henry Silva), the camera pans out on Clark’s face to show a sign by his head advertising his campaign to restore the Bronx, while the gangs and the Disinfestors are busily destroying the ruins of the Bronx to kill each other. It’s a nice bit of camera work to heighten the irony. The technical aspects of Escape 2000 are far above those of comparable movies.
On the acting side, the actors are into their roles, particularly the colorful Dablone and his gang of brave misfits. Dablone comes across as a harried leader trying to do right by his followers, putting up a cheerful front to mask the danger of their situation. There’s a good chemistry between Trash and Dablone: both are macho guys with different opinions on how to deal with the Disinfestors, and there’s a nice physicality when they interact with each other. The slower scenes add some motivation for the characters and build the world up far better than Warrior of the Lost World, with the most unlikeable protagonist imaginable and a villain who is evil for the sake of being evil. I like the touch of adding Trash’s parents in their shabby apartment, arguing about what to do about the Disinfestors but trying to do the right thing for their son. That little touch adds meaning to their horrific deaths. I like that Clark and his vice president (the “personal injury lawyer”) are shown in a press conference, masking their fascistic methods with corporate speak to fool the journalists. I like that Moon (the “vampire woman”) really overstates her case at this press conference and gets carried out. It’s the kind of thing that a passionate journalist would do, and she ultimately dies for her cause. I could take or leave the little kid, but I like Strike. He doesn’t really have morals, but he’s brave and doing the right thing. I like Wangler spitting coffee at his assistant and screaming at him. It really demonstrates Wangler’s sociopathy. I like that Clark tries to weasel out of responsibility to Trash by claiming that he’s not the only one responsible for the events in the Bronx, and that Trash, without knowing the slightest thing about corporate methods, responds quite accurately “Yeah, but you’re still a wheel!” The acting in this movie brings out an interesting underlying message: the very things that make the protagonists criminals in a normal society, make them heroes in this dystopian society. I don’t pretend that this movie is Oscar material, but the performances in it are genuine and as good as can be expected from such a movie.
In closing, Escape from the Bronx is every bit as good as it’s trying to be, which is a dystopian action-laden B movie. That said, I still enjoy this episode and I give it a very high personal ranking. Now leave the Bronx!
There are a number of movies in MSTdom that I consider to be “not that bad”, but none that I can think of that were “too good”, to the point were the riffing was annoying. I don’t believe there were any, but then, it’s hard to keep the entire run of 200 or so movies in your head at one time.
i second the thought that none of the movies were “too good to riff.” that said i think some of the movies are enjoyable, B-movie fare – in particular TORMENTED, DEADLY MANTIS, & REVENGE OF THE CREATURE (despite the insufferable john agar) – overall i rather like most of the 50’s monster movies they did.
The Final Sacrifice.
(There. I said it.)
Not a bad student film! Done very well on a minuscule budget, had some descent stunts, and had an interesting enough story (even though there are some points where it seems to drag on a little long).
Sawing off the front door of a house, car chases/crashes, good model-work, all on a couple thousand dollars??? Bravo, I say!
It’s seems watchable by itself, but it’s not above being riffed.
Glad it’s apart of the series.
If the movie is good, I imagine that makes the riffing of it that much more challenging. If they are up to the task, then no problem. When you want to turn the riffing off and just watch the movie, then there’s room to nitpick. The riffing for Halloween and Jaws spring to mind. However, the recent riffing of NOTLD, albeit a “too-good” movie, cleared the hurdle nicely (IMO).
My favorite TV show is Deadwood, but I could riff the bejesus out of every episode. But if I were seeing it for the first time I wouldn’t appreciate the riffing. So the success also hinges on how familiar I am with the movie or whatever.
Easy. Moon Zero Two. How could any “western in space” exist without it?
I’ll agree with “Marooned,” and while the version of “Hamlet” they riffed wasn’t too good, per se, I’d opine that any Shakespearean play is too well-known to make the best riffing fodder. I’m not sure why the Brains thought it would be good, but perhaps they realized it wasn’t the greatest choice in that they didn’t riff another well-known play again.
Might another WDT be (if it hasn’t already been used) “Movies You Like to Watch — or at least don’t mind watching — Without the Riffing”??
As an 9-year old I was very enthralled with Gorgo, and I was glad to hear Leonard Maltin admit he liked the movie. The plot twist with Gorgo actually being a baby was well played in the full movie. I remember the shiver that went down my spine when they showed the skeleton of the baby Gorgo and the parent, and remember being scared to death as I watched the adult Gorgo smash London.
“Overdrawn at the Memory Bank”
Raul Julia, alone, is worth it. I remember seeing this on PBS back in the ’80s and liking it.
The Trollenberg Terror, aka The Crawling Eye.
The ending is a bit rushed (apparently it was based on a 6 part serial on UK TV, sort of like the Quatermass movies), but the first 3/4 of the movie are very good. Very much something out of Lovecraft, IMHO.
It’s certainly riffable, but it’s an excellent B horror movie.
OTOH, something I think is unriffable is Carnival of Souls, which Rifftrax did. Really engrossing movie that requires you to pay attention to it. The riffing just distracts you.
I think that the very entertaining rifftrack of Casablanca proves that there is no such thing as a movie “Too Good” to riff. Many great riffs have nothing to do with the movie being bad, like the guy in Time Chasers that had mowed the lawn too short. Down to the bedrock. The movie scene it was commenting on wasn’t bad or stupid or poorly filmed. They just thought of something funny to say while looking at it. And think about the fact that few movies are so bad that there is something blatantly awful to comment on every moment of the entire film. So the riffers had to learn to come up with funny things to say even when the movie wasn’t actively sucking. So why not a movie that mostly or even fully doesn’t suck? Like Casablanca, and to a lesser extent the first Matrix film. Not all movies are a good fit for riffing. But personally I don’t think that being “too good” disqualifies a film from being good riffing material. But I recognize that Sampo’s Law of “If someone loves it someone else will hate it” will prevent any concensus on the issue.
And Watch-out-for-Snakes, I’m always glad to hear love for Phase 4 being expressed here. It’s one of my favorite episodes of the entire show, not just season KTMA. And again. I like the movie on it’s own, but I love it riffed.
I agree with a lot of the sentiments about riffing good movies. With RiffTrax, the riffing of Casablanca, the LOTR films, original trilogy of Star Wars, Jaws, etc. are films that Mike, Kevin and Bill all seemed to enjoy, so the riffs aren’t scathing like a actual terrible movie, but still point out funny bits and make funny comments without hating it.
There is that, Creeping-Death! :-O
You know what would be really hard to riff would be a Howard Hawks film. With so much overlapping dialogue it would be tricky to get the riffs in where you wan them. That’s one thing about most bad movies that make them natural for riffing on- lots of pauses padding out the dialogue scenes.
I always thought that, even though the dubbing was bad, “First Spaceship to Venus” was okay, or at least the ending was poignant and I’m glad they didn’t actually SHOW a Venusian, just their shadows. It reminded me of “Soft Rains Will Come” by Bradbury.
I’ll also nominate “Devil Doll”. Before I knew the ending, I was genuinely intrigued and uncomfortable.
Finally, I thought the Steve Reeves “Hercules” movies were decent in a fun way. I never thought they tried to do too much with what they had and there were all kinds of neat mythological connections.
@14 Agreed, and I recommend the movie it’s a sequel to, 1990: The Bronx Warriors. I think Escape is better, but the first gives Trash a decent love interest, and it has the always awesome Fred Williamson and Vic Morrow.
I will hand it off to Lt. Daniels of The Wire: “You gotta be ****ting me!”
I’m in the camp that First Spaceship to Venus falls under this discussion. I enjoy the movie but I actually dislike the episode 1. Tom’s overblown sarcasm sequencer comes off as very obnoxious rather than funny and 2. Yes, there are long, dragging scenes but most of the riffs in those scenes are only there to remind us how long and draggy there are.
It’s perhaps the only movie that’s received the riff treatment that I prefer to watch without the riffers.
The only ones I thought were too good for them (and not cheesy enough to make up for it) wer “This Island Earth” and “Gorgo.” I liked MST:TM but the Gorgo ep never did it for me. It was just too well-made for monster movie riffing.
There are some movies that are pretty good but have enough cheese to make them riffable. I’d go with “Devil Doll” which is really engrossing and creepy. I liked “Girls Town” with Mamie Van, Mel Torme and the Platters. How can you complain?
Horror of Party Beach is plain goofy and stupid, but danged if I’m not singing those Del-Air songs all day after watching it.