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Joel InterviewDan Tabor of Geekadelphia.com interviews Joel.
40 Replies to “Joel Interview”Commenting at Satellite News
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“People like Rifftrax are doing it and they just have to put their voices in. I have seen other people do that too where you don’t know who they are, you just hear talking. I guess you could do that, but to me that is only part of movie riffing. The other part is your physical presence; what you’re doing when you’re riffing.”
Amen.
I have to say I also agree with his theory on film riffing (Rifftrax vs. Cinematic Titanic). I occasionally purchase and enjoy Rifftrax, but I get more overall joy out of MST3K and CT. I think the missing link is seeing the performers.
I also agree that it’s a lot more fun when they are riffing something completely out of left field (like “Manos” or “War of the Insects”) as opposed to a Hollywood blockbuster. Rifftrax is at least starting to do that (along with some bizarre shorts from the 60s), and I tend to purchase those over riffs on the latest “Transformers” film. Even I have my limits.
Well let add my two cents. I myself find the older, obscure and strange films lend themselves better to the riffing process. Add in the live riffing factor and it really clicks. Seeing a live performance even if on dvd is just a better product.
What I enjoyed about the live experience is that it’s never exactly the samer perfomance twice. At one performance someone may flub a line and one of the others on stage may comment on it. Or a line which gets a laugh in one city may earn a good natured ‘boo’ in another city — causing the riffer to comment on that. Or a line gets a big laugh at one performance and so the next riffers in line may have to drop their jokes because they wouldn’t be heard over the laughter but that same line may not garner as much of a laugh at another performance and so the people at that performance may get to hear a riff that the others didn’t. And so on.
The live experience is actually a collaborative art. The guys on stage have talent enough to be able to adapt, shift on the fly, and occasionally ad-lib in response to what the audience is giving them in the way of reaction. By that token the audience is active in shaping the performance that they are seeing.
I like the DVD’s as well but the live show is just something special.
I’m with Joel on the concept that the old movies that nobody ever heard of are the best for riffing on, and those are the ones that become most dear to my heart.
I have always been a huge fan of all of the crew, Mike, Kevin & Bill included. But CT’s product gives way more good riffs per episode than RT’s.
Now, The Film Crew had potential, and Killers from Space is one of my all-time favorites.
But with Rifftrax, even with their shorts, they just arent as funny. Some of the shorts are very un-funny, in fact, and I would rather have my money back.
It doesn’t seem to me that there is enough “funny” to warrant me to buy a lot of their product. And I have never yet done the whole sync-up thing with a modern movie & and riffing audio track, and I never will probably.
Right now, for my very limited income and budget, I will pay for Cinematic Titanic’s products because they guaranteed to be fully entertaining – great and constantly funny riffing, with never before seen movies that suck.
Joel fanboys are so dense.
Hey! I got nothing against Rifftrax. I applaud and like what they’re doing… for the most part (look, ANYONE mess with “Casablanca” they’re gonna get at least a little hate from me. I don’t CARE what their aim was in doing it. You. Don’t. Mess. With. Casablanca).
But I do think that CT hews a bit more closely to what MST3K began as. Rifftrax is like an evolution on from it, CT is like “classic”. One can enjoy the sleek lines and new design on say a 2012 Corvette while still also appreciating a 1961 Corvette.
I, personally, tend to gravitate a bit more towards CT for pretty much the reasons Joel mentions —
I like being exposed to a movie I’ve never seen before. I know it will be “bad” but it will be “bad” in all new ways.
Also, Joel and the gang tend to pick movies from the 1960’s and 1970’s. Growing up, the little, independent TV station I tended to watch as a kid used to play all kinds of cheap, crappy movies from the 1960’s and 1970’s because the TV station could license them for a song. As a result I saw stuff like “The Thing With Two Heads” at the age of six. Seriously, NO ONE should see that movie at that tender of an age. But nonetheless, I grew up on the kinds of movies that CT ends up picking to riff so this is something I can kind of plug into. It’s like getting to look back at my childhood with an adult filter.
And finally, I stand by what I said about the live format. There’s just an energy you can’t get from a DVD recording. The guys on stage are obviously feeding off the energy from the audience and in the audience you’re sharing the laughter and energy of the people around you. [Eddie Izzard Voice]”It’s a positive thing, man.”[/Eddie Izzard]
So, please, don’t just write us all off as “Joel Fanboys”. Some of us have good, valid reasons for liking what we like and it’s more than just a slavish devotion to one person.
There are no sacred cows. Any movie is riffable, from Bloody Pit of Horror to North by Northwest. “You don’t mess with Casablanca”, it’s a classic, one of my favourite movies, but it isn’t the Holy Grail, nobody is going to sacrifice himself for a movie.
Just one more thing, watching Transformers 1, 2 and 3 is as soul crushing as watching the Coleman Francis trilogy. The Room can be as hilariously bad as Attack of the the Eye Creatures, and Warriors of the Wasteland is like Warrior from the Lost World (but sadly, without Megaweapon).
“People like Rifftrax are doing it and they just have to put their voices in. I have seen other people do that too where you don’t know who they are, you just hear talking. I guess you could do that, but to me that is only part of movie riffing. The other part is your physical presence; what you’re doing when you’re riffing.”
Interesting he mentions that because that to me is one of the biggest negative differences between the post-MST3K incarnations and MST3K. All the MST3K characters had their own characteristics so certain lines might be funnier if said by one character or another and of course many of the host segments were fantastic. With CT or RT, it doesn’t really matter who says what line because it’s not like we as viewers know a whole lot about any of the performers. Although the longer CT goes on, I’m getting more familiar with the riffers and it was great to meet them. I think the big problem with post-MST riffing is nobody has figured out how to do host segments, CT tried, failed and has now abandoned it and RT never even tried to my knowledge. I wish everyone would make up and get the bots back together. And for the record, I much prefer CT to RT but am not a total snob, I think the RT Plan 9 and The Room riffs were great.
@ #8
And this is where we will have to agree to disagree.
To me the spirit of things is what Kevin is quoted as saying back in the day “My job is to make the unwatchable watchable”.
That’s why I applaud anything that can make a horrible movie enjoyable. But why I think they go off-track by going after things like “Casablanca”. Those movies are actually watchable and enjoyable in their own right. I don’t need or want the gang to try to make them “funny” or “more enjoyable”.
So maybe there aren’t any “sacred cows” anymore but I approach things the way I tend to approach CGI special effects. So many filmmakers can do so much now that they never seem to stop to ask whether or not it’s actually adding something to the film. Or, to put it more simply: “Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you actually SHOULD.”
Hey I’m just impressed Joel actually mentioned Rifftrax by name!
I disagree that no movie is unriffable. There were plenty of movies looked at by the Brains and deemed so bad they coudln’t do anything with them and as a result never tried.
Casablanca> I certainly agree nothing is sacred. I’m as big of an original trilogy Star Wars fan as there is. Yet I always saw the potential for riffing because it has its problems. That said when interviewed the Rifftrax guys are careful to point out they didn’t riff Casablanca “because they can.” Instead they approached it as an experiment. They wanted to see what could be done with something that is universally accepted as good. There is nothing wrong with a little experimentation.
I agree with Cheapskate Crow.
RT < CT < MST3K Precisely because Rifftrax is just disembodied voices, CT is people you can see, but MST is CHARACTERS doing the riffing. Plus skits.
@8 Dan..I agree that any movie is riffable,but there is only one that isn’t and that’s SCHINDLER’S LIST.I’m sorry you can’t make the Holocaust funny.Not unless we’re talking ROBOT HOLOCAUST..For me,I’d rather see Rifftrax riff older bad movies than the classic movies..Rifftrax did a decent job with SANTA AND THE ICE CREAM BUNNY,but still,that was more painful than Beast of Yucca Flats and Manos combined and it’s hard to watch,even with them riffing on it.Oh,the pain,the pain…
The interviewer asks Joel if he thinks he (Joel) is responsible for exposing people to the cinema of the weird, for broadening their tastes, and Joel, gentleman that he is, deflects the praise.
Well Joel, I want to say to you (and next time CT comes to Phoenix I’ll say it to you in person) that at least in this one case, you and your compatriots are DIRECTLY responsible for showing someone the joy that can be had from viewing offbeat, off-kilter movies. I very much doubt that I EVER would have developed an intense love for 1950s sci-fi, particularly rocket ship movies, without seeing “Rocketship X-M” or “Project Moon Base” on MST. And even though I saw “Road Warrior,” it probably helped me develop a love for postapocalypic cinema/fiction (and, by extension through the great sequelsploitation market of the 1980s, Italian cinema) to have seen “Warrior of the Lost World.”
And I could go on and on. But, and I wish to stress that I ALMOST NEVER get sappy and sentimental, THANK YOU, Joel, Trace, Josh, Frank, Kevin, Mike, Mary Jo, Bill, and everyone else involved in that brilliant and wonderful nexus of creativity up there where they got mosquitoes the size of Sikorskys. Thank you, for you have made my life that much happier and brighter.
Interesting. I agree about the physical presence. For me, the silhouettes make it feel more intimate somehow, as though you’re trapped in the theater with them. Part of the reason I prefer the studio CT to the live CT.
I prefer the more off-beat films and riffs myself. I like finding out about something new in the process, some bizarre, forgotten corner of cinematic history, some obscure reference in a riff, etc. Also, I like how the CT MST alum seem to have an underlying fondness for some of the movies. I think it shows in the riffs. I don’t really get any of this with RT (it’s hard to fault them on that last point though; can’t imagine having an underlying fondness for Transformers etc ) I’ve tried them a few times and, from what I’ve seen, I have to agree with comment 5 / Manny Sanguillen.
There was a Star Trek one I recall, some of the jokes were basically like ‘Look, William Shatner is fat.’ Haha.. I guess? Personally, I was a big fan of the RT guys on MST3k, but I was surprised that RT felt so different. It struck me as being more like plain sarcasm than clever one-liners, not as nuanced. (no, I’m not a Joel fanboy :P I discovered the show through Mike’s late episodes and I think he and Joel are both great in their own different ways). But I should give them another shot. I do hear great things about this ‘The Room.’
I guess it just comes down to personal preference. I have a friend who likes Sci-Fi MST (just a casual fan though), loves RT, and he doesn’t go for CT at all. He said they just had ‘boring old movies.’ For him Manos is probably just a ‘boring old movie.’ One man’s terrible movie is another man’s ..er, enjoyable terrible movie. I wanted to point out to him that MST had such ‘boring old movies’ as well, but I didn’t want to utterly destroy his reasoning :P
As a youthful fan of MST3K (I’m 19) I’d have to say Rifftrax speaks more to my generation than CT, or even MST for that matter. Don’t get me wrong, I love old bad movies, but since RT does current movies as well it makes them seem more hip to somebody my age or my friends’ age even when they do old movies, if that makes any sense.
I’m one of those MST3K fans that adores both Joel and Mike. If I was forced to choose a preference as host (an unlikely scenario), I’d choose Joel b/c there was always something poignant to me about Joel’s role as the bot’s Dad. And his delivery is so unique. In fact, if I may go off on a tangent….I think my favorite riffing affect of all MST3K riffers is Joel’s mock amazement at something either very mundane or uncool (Ex: The Magic Sword: “it’s so neat how they each have their own little tasks.”) But, I digress.
I think Rifftrax has to be the runaway winner when comparing the two for one simple reason: volume. I know “quality over quantity” is an old cliche….but, while not every riff is a HR, Rifftrax has at least 20 no-doubt-about-it all-time classics that rival any MST ep. If you’re a MST3K fan whose seen the Rifftrax of Birdemic and not enjoyed it….I’m very, very confused.
CT has only 11 releases. To give them the nod over RT would be to concede that those 11 releases are so strong, that they trump literally 100’s of releases from RT. And while I greatly enjoy most of those releases, I don’t know if a single one would be in the top 10 Rifftrax riffs. I love Alien Factor, for example. But, can I say that it’s definitively better than 90% of RT’s material? I really can’t. Because for CT to have a fighting chance as the “better product”…it would have to be based on sheer numbers.
There’s another personal bias that I bring to this discussion and I apologize for bringing it up for the millionth time. While she seems like a wonderful person and I respect and thank her for everything positive she brought to MST3K….I don’t enjoy Mary Jo Pehl as a performer. I didn’t enjoy her host segment guest spots prior to Season 7. And I detest the Pearl character. So, I have a visceral reaction every time I hear one of her riffs in CT and it really breaks the flow of the experience for me. Also, while Josh has a nice delivery, Kevin Murphy is Tom Servo. I adore the riffing styles of Joel, Mike, Trace, Kevin, Frank (who is AWESOME on CT) and Bill. I mean, to me…they are The Beatles of riffing. The vast majority of RT riffs are comprised solely of Mike, Kevin and Bill. In CT, Mary Jo and Josh are getting equal time to Trace, Joel and Frank. So, while I still greatly enjoy the product and am so happy that Joel, Frank and Trace are back in the game….it dampens the experience for me.
In sum (why do I always write novels on these threads), I love both Joel and Mike. I love Rifftrax. I enjoy CT and am glad it’s out there but wish it was more frequent and didn’t feature Mary Jo and Josh as performers. And I think RT deserves a ton of credit for just how much content they’ve distributed.
Best,
Droppo, the laziest man on Mars
Droppo,
Well said. But I have to argue with any statement that ‘any’ RT or CT are as good as the old MST3K. Much less 20 RTs? I’ve seen a fair share of both, and I like them.
But MST3K they ain’t.
@18 Droppo..Just because Rifftrax has more product than CT doesn’t mean all of them are funny as the one before or after it.I prefer the shorts than the movies that Rifftrax do anyway.I think sometimes you can have too much product.
But I have to admitt this interview contains one great breakthrough, Joel acknowledges Rifftrax existence. Maybe, just maybe, some of these days, he, if the stars are aligned, will say to Mike: “Hello”.
Neptune Man,
They’ve appeared at Cons together and Rifftrax was mentioned when I saw CT live a couple months ago.
@ Neptune Man,
Joel HAS acknowledged Rifftrax before in interviews. A number of times when asked about them he’s stated that he simply doesn’t feel comfortable doing what they do and didn’t want to ‘mix up the brand’ by crossing Rifftrax with Cinematic Titanic.
Perhaps the BETTER solution would be an MST3K “reunion” piece that stood alone rather than Joel doing a Rifftrax or Mike, Kevin and Bill doing a Cinematic Titanic.
That way everyone meets on ‘neutral territory’ and no one feels compelled to try to fit into anyone else’s format.
I commented earlier but have to clarify that I came into the show during the Mike & Bill years and always prefer those episodes to the older ones. I like the old ones too though.
That said, I still say that right now, the better product is Cinematic Titanic.
I find Joel funnier than ever now in the CT episodes, and having Frank Conniff riffing is also a major game changer. Just having those 5 very giftedly funny minds writing and the sheer volume of truly funny riffs they come up with and perform per episode is high quality stuff.
I know when I purchase a dvd that I’m not going to regret it.
I would really love for the Rifftrax crew to match that quality but I have been disappointed by more than a few of the shorts and some of the movies.(basically I get all their shorts and VOD movies).
I love their mst3k work, and The Film Crew could have been very good (that guy who played Bob Honcho was really funny too) and wish they could get back to that MST3K level of consistently funny. To me though, CT has come the closest to that level.
I also really enjoy the CT live dvds, and being able to see them rather than the silhouettes. I also love the interplay between them live, and the laughing at each others lines. Especially Frank. He’s even better than a human laugh track, because what he laughs at is truly funny.
That Dana Gould guy is funny too. I didn’t know who that was until I saw the credits for ‘Wasp Woman’. Its one of my favorite episodes and when Frank brings Buddy Rich on I laugh my ass off everytime, especially that last line about “Jimi Hendrix’s band of something something somethings (unprintable)”.
A few things…..I totally agree about Frank. I always adored him, but, it’s so gat to have him ridding. His delivery and general demeanor is so funny and infectious….it elevates the entire experience.
As far as the volume thing….again, I’m fully aware of the quality over quantity perspective….I just happen to feel the quality of RT is excellent AND they’ve released hundreds of riffs vs the 11 of CT.
And to clarify/backtrack……let me be clear….nothing beats MST. It’s, to me, the pinnacle of comedy and the premise/characters make it something truly special. My point, perhaps overstated a bit, was that I can easily name at least 20 RT’s that are on par with excellent MST episodes from a riffing standpoint. I challenge any MST fan to watch Birdemic (my favorite RT offering) and not enjoy it. If it was a MST ep, I am positive it would be cited as one of the very best.
Gat to have him ridding????? Wow….Siri sunk me on that one. Meant to be “great to have him riffing”
aw, nobody wants to respond to you when you’re only 19, guess I’ll go back down to the basement
It’s okay lady gaggag, at least your comment got some likes. 20-year-old here is on your ground.
Despite this comment continuing the chain of not really talking about the article, I want to throw in my own stance. I’m a bit in the “I really don’t care” category for both Cinematic Titanic and Rifftrax. I don’t watch a whole lot of current movies, so RT is a bit lost on me, and CT is just so darn sporadic with their releases that I can’t bring myself to care all that much. I own one of their DVDs, but that’s ’cause I bought it at a live show.
Riffing is riffing, and to me, nothing is so good it cannot be riffed. (“So good” does not mean “deals with sensitive topics”, soooo riffing Schindler’s List is best to be avoided.) There are things I love but can easily poke some fun at. I baffle some friends with Doctor Who, a show I adore but will crack many a joke at. The same even goes for MST3K itself – a group of friends and I watch an episode every week, and since host segments are part of the game, we’ll have some fun with those too. So people getting uptight about Rifftrax riffing on Casablanca are coming at this from a different mindset than I am, which I can get, but don’t necessarily agree with myself.
I have several Rifftrax shorts (they work best for me since they’re video+riffing and easily affordable) and enjoy all of them. The only movie riffing I have of theirs is Twilight, but from what I’ve seen of their other offerings, I’d so buy them if I actually watched movies. Cinematic Titanic is fine and all, and I’m not going to knock them for what they do, but…actually, that’s really it. I don’t have much hate for CT, if really any.
Also, what Droppo said: He explained a point I was going to bring up but won’t since he pretty much nailed it.
Speaking as probably the youngest MST3K fan here (17, only discovered the show last year!), I must say how much I appreciate MST3K for sparking my love of cheesy B-Movies. I probably would have never even known about hilariously bad films like The Creeping Terror or EEGAH if it wasn’t for them. Thanks to MST3K, I know about names like Roger Corman, Bert I Gordon and Ed Wood(I had seen the Burton biopic, but I didn’t know he made non sci-fi films like The Violent Years). I would probably only have known Peter Graves as “that funny pilot from Airplane!” and not from such classics like Killers From Space or It Conquered The World.
I like both Rifftrax and CT and think they’re both hilarious…but I have to give the edge to CT. I love the 50’s/60’s/70’s movies the best. Rifftrax’s VOD films like Warriors Of The Wasteland and Laser Mission are the kind of films I’d like to see them do all the time, not stuff like Thor or the Harry Potter series or Casablanca (Yes, I saw their riffing. I didn’t like it.)
I think modern-day blockbuster bombs like Transformers 3 CAN be riffed, they just have to be as terribly bad as, say, Attack Of The Crab Monsters or The Werewolf Of Washington.
Another reason I prefer CT to RT is, frankly, the fact that there ARE so few CT installments compared to RT. It makes each release/performance an event of sorts, as opposed to the assembly-line, “crank-’em-out” output of RT.
lady gaggag, Katan, and Matthew Shine:
First of all, let me say how wonderful it is to have some younger MSTies around (not that I’m, like, old or anything….)–and to see that you guys are engaging as much with RT and CT as with MST. Keep the comments coming, guys!
I think Joel is right to emphasise that the RT guys are simply doing something different from what the CT guys are doing, and leaving it at that. I personally don’t prefer the RT takes on Casablanca or Harry Potter, not because these movies are sacred cows (well, Casablanca maybe, but think of how cheesy those lines would sound coming out of anyone but Bogart, Bergman, and Claude Rains. The cast and director were clever enough to have some fun with the whole story, and that lifts it far above the rather routine wartime melodrama it’s always in danger of being), but because they carry with them the weight of the viewer’s experience. I carry with me not only the experience of the movie itself, but everything I have thought and felt about it over the dozen or so times I’ve seen it. In the same way, the Harry Potter films are very riffable, seen from one perspective, but I’ve invested a lot of my own experience into the films themselves to separate myself and enjoy the riffing. I can come to a movie like “Rocketship X-M” or “Warrior of the Lost World” with no preconceptions, no emotional baggage, and enjoy what MST does with them, because I have never heard of them before MST, and can accept it as a target for riffing. Ditto for the obscure films CT and RT find.
As proof of this, I watched “Santa Claus” last night, and of course had a marvellous time; my kids saw it for the first time, and nearly split themselves laughing. When I pointed out that someone on this site mentioned that the film has something of the status of “It’s a Wonderful Life” in some countries they were amazed–but as I was watching again, I began to see how that might be the case. George Bailey’s finding Zuzu’s petals in his pocket is pretty sentimental stuff, as is Lupita’s wanting to give a dolly to Baby Jesus–but I’d feel a little uneasy having someone riff on George Bailey, because I’ve already allowed myself to accept the emotional premise over many years of watching the film, whereas I’ve been prevented from doing so in the case of Lupita by associating her line with Crow’s “Jesus has enough presents already” line. And I can’t watch the unriffed version of “Santa Claus” without hearing the riffs in my head.
So, for me, it’s not about format (tho’ I prefer CT a bit more because it’s a bit closer to MST, and Joel’s point about the physical element is well taken: but then Joel always was the more physical comedian), but about the choice of movie. I think the idea that anything is riffable may work on paper, but is much tougher to execute. The sharply divided opinion about MST’s “Hamlet”–which I think of as Mike’s blueprint for RT–is proof of that (again, it’s not because I have such reverence for Shakespeare that I don’t appreciate the MST “Hamlet,” it’s that I can’t just enjoy the riffing on its own terms without comparing it to everything I’ve read and known about “Hamlet”). And I can’t separate my own feelings about “Casablanca” or “Harry Potter” to let Mike, Kevin and Bill take over. Katana, if you can, more power to you.
If this sounds like a load of poopie to you, let me know.
Wow, you guys take riffing silly movies and turn into a darn science. I now know why some people complained that Msties ruined MST3K for them. But what do I know? I’m from Neptune and I can be defeated by a wispy bachelor.
@17 lady gaggag
Here’s another reply for you ;) I’m actually just out of college – been a MST3k fan since like jr high though – but I still prefer the obscure movies/riffs. I like looking up the stuff I don’t get. A riff on some strange commercial from the 70s? I wanna look it up and find out about it! But it could be I’m just weird lol :P I dunno, with the big budget Hollywood movies I see/hear about them constantly. My friends, on TV, billboards, magazines, etc. So I like something different. Also, I grew up watching lots of classic movies, so I never had a bias against older or black/white movies like a lot of people around our ages.
But this is just me and I do get what you’re saying. I tried to get friends into MST and CT over the years at school and stuff, it always fails. But, usually they end up liking RT, I guess because like you say it’s more in line with our generation.
@18 Droppo
I didn’t usually care for Pearl either. In general I thought some of the host segments in those Sci-Fi days just tried too hard (something I feel like RT does too). I dunno what it is exactly. Dr. F and Frank could get pretty over-the-top, but it always worked, it never felt forced. But I don’t mind her at all on CT since she seems more laid back/natural *shrug*
@29 Matthew Shine
Haha, same with me- I discovered Peter Graves, Roger Corman, Coleman Francis, J. Don Baker (whom I had only seen in Bond movies before), etc. all through MST3k. Awesome to see a fellow fan of bad old movies, there aren’t many of us lol like I said above, I try to get my friends into them but no one’s interested compared to Transformers, Twilight, etc.
I’m not against riffing on new movies. I think it’s got more to do with the RT style, which I find is more like ‘oh, look how fat/effeminate/stupid/etc that guy is’ instead of their more witty riffs ala when they were on MST3k. But I’m gonna give ‘em another try after what you said about Warriors Of The Wasteland and Laser Mission.
Incidentally, even though I prefer the older movies, I would be curious to see what the CT crew would do with a more recent movie compared to how RT handles them. CT does drop newer references too, so I think they could handle it well. I forget which episode it was, but I absolutely cracked up when Josh went ‘Don’t taze me bro!’
hi again all, thanks for the comments. Anyway for all you fellow young’uns out there (or anyone for that matter), did you like old movies before you found MST?, I know I didn’t. Also my brother will watch MST too, but only if it’s a color movie
I liked old movies before MST3K. I stumbled across MST3K because I thought ir was the original version of This Island Earth.
I also noticed something that people from outside the fandom pointed out, MST3Kland is a war-zone, Joel vs Mike, Comedy Central vs Sci-Fi, CC Mads vs Sci-Fi Mads, Trace vs Bill, Kevin vs Josh, Season 6 Pearl vs Season 7 Pearl vs Season 8.9 and 10 Pearl, Torgo vs Ortega, Gamera vs Gorgo, etc.
@34 I grew up watching old movies, so I liked them before. But most of my friends are like your brother, they won’t watch a movie unless it’s color. I really got into MST3k when they were doing those 80s flicks like Time Chasers.
@33 Rupan III..It was SANTA CLAUS CONQUERS THE MARTIANS where Josh said “Don’t taze me bro!” @34 ladygaggag..I grew up with black and white movies,so I guess it’s generational.I remember watching THE AMAZING COLOSSAL MAN vaguely at one of our movie theaters when I was in my early teens.I knew Joe Don Baker from the WALKING TALL movie(the original and the best),Peter Graves through the MISSION:IMPOSSIBLE tv series,but Coleman Francis was one I knew through MST3K..As far as Roger Corman,I remember seeing his movies(the ones that Vincent Price did and I believe IT CONQUERED THE WORLD)on tv,but never knew his name. @33 Rupan III…I could see CT riff on PLANET OF THE DINOSAURS and MANIAC.Those two would be good.
From all I’ve read and interviews I’ve heard, I believe that it’s Frank Conniff We have to thank for unleashing the movies of Coleman Francis upon the world. And to that I give him a standing ovation and a salute.
I also think that is why when the other riffers did practically the only other 2 big movies that Coleman Francis was ever in, they completely blew it and missed it because they were without Frank at those times.
‘MST3K The Movie (This Island Earth)’ has him as the mailman, and ‘Killers From Space’ has extended scenes of him during the last 10 minutes of the movie and plenty of chances to riff on him with some funny callbacks.
I guarantee if Frank was involved he wouldn’t have missed them.
That also ties in with my earlier assertion of how important TV’s Frank is to the mix.
I was mostly a child of the late 1970’s and 1980’s but I had access to that dying or dead breed: the independent TV station.
Really, I think that’s a lot of what drives things. Now everything is a network and there really isn’t any room for small, local, independent TV stations like the one that really spawned MST3K. I also think that’s why you’ll never again see a TV series like MST3K anymore — too much crap which has to be approved by network suits.
But indie TV stations usually had a lot of hours of programming to fill and not a lot of money with which to buy programs to fill it hence they gravitated to the cheaper stuff and that usually meant a lot of old TV shows or old and crappy movies.
That’s why, despite the fact that Joel and the gang are about 20 years older than me the stuff they grew up watching first run I grew up watching in syndication.
But there’s a quality to bad movies of the past that I don’t think bad movies of the present can quite match.
I mean, compare a bad rubber suit monster to bad CGI — there’s just…. eh. You look at a bad rubber suit monster and you laugh at the ridiculousness of it (traffic cones from Venus!) but bag CGI just seems… well, bad CGI. Sure, you can laugh at how bad it is but there just feels like there’s something lacking there.
And there seems like there’s such a wide range of “bad” that old movies could churn out — bats on visible wires, the aforementioned bad rubber suits, terrible line deliveries, terrible actors, etc. But there was still a kind of goofy charm that could, occasionally, shine through. Or else a movie that was just so ill-thought-out you wonder how it got greenlit.
I just feel like a lot of modern bad movies are all just bad in the same way. Holllywood’s found a cookie cutter way of doing blockbusters and by turn they’ve found a cookie cutter way of doing bad movies as well…. Well, unless you’re Uwe Boll. Now he’s at least turned “bad” into a unique art form. I actually saw “Alone in the Dark” in the theatres. On a date. We giggled through the whole thing. Most fun I’ve had at a bad movie.
Most films though Hollywood just isn’t as open to. I mean… take “Killer Shrews”. Just the premise alone… Killer. Shrews. Have you seen a real shrew? I have. What did someone have to be high on to convince a Hollywood executive that giant, man eating shrews would be scary? Nowadays you’d only kind that level of insanity on something like a Sci-Fi (now SyFy) channel “original movie”. And nine times out of ten you’d find that the Sci-Fi Channel movie was playing it deliberately campy or else had a tongue planted firmly in cheek, or else was doing it in a hipster ironic way. And that’s the sort of thing that kind of robs riffing of it’s power. I mean, it’s kind of hard to make fun of a movie that’s already making fun of itself. That’s something that both Joel and Mike have pointed out over the years. If you’re going to riff a movie you pretty much have to riff something that is at least trying to take itself or it’s subject seriously on some level or another.
Look at RT’s output — how many of those movies are comedies?
Think you can riff anything? Try riffing something like “Monty Python’s The Holy Grail” or “The Life of Brian” or “Dr. Strangelove”. I think you’ll find it’s an uphill battle because you’re trying to poke fun at a movie that isn’t taking itself or it’s subject seriously. And in the case of “Dr. Strangelove” you really can’t add satire to something that’s already satirical.
@34
I’ve always loved old movies ever since I saw Duck Soup when I was 12. Since then, I think that I have more older films than newer ones. Films like Treasure Of The Serria Madre, The Universal Horrors, the WB Cagney pictures all are some of my favorites. I’ve got an entire collection of Marx Brothers and Laurel and Hardy. I think I laughed the hardest I ever had at The Music Box.
@39
I have to agree with you on the modern “B-Movie”. It just seems that the bad movies these days…aren’t bad ENOUGH. Let’s face it, nothing like The Beast Of Yucca Flats will ever be released in movie theaters ever again. It’s sad, but the funniest modern day bad movies I’ve ever seen is Quantum Apocalypse, The Room, the “Movie Movie” series and House Of The Dead, all of which would have been perfect for MST3K.
(MY SYSTEM’S BETTER THAN THEIRS! BETTER THAN THEIRS! BETTER THAN THEIRS! YE-E-E-ES! Terry Marshall is the 21st century Torgo.)
I think that the main appeal of riffing is that the source has to be SO BAD that only a good tongue lashing can fix it. Other than that, anything goes. You want to riff on something as bad as Herbie: Fully Loaded? Be my guest. Jason X? Sure thing. Disaster Movie? I’d pay 20 bucks to see CT/Rifftrax go up against that piece of garbage.