$6.3 Million goal has been reached and FOURTEEN new episodes are coming!
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#BringBackMST3K Kickstarter Tracker
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No, we don’t, but we can reasonably infer that Frank thinks he isn’t, because that is clearly what he is saying in that tweet.
Because words are a way of communicating emotion.
Frank’s exact words were “His interest in being on our show is about the same as his interest in having MST3K cast be part of the reboot.” The clear implication of those words is that Frank believes Joel is (1) not interested in being on Frank’s show and (2) not interested in having the MST3K cast be part of the reboot. This is not casting bones or reading tea leaves; people aren’t reading in things that aren’t there. It’s not a matter of subtext, it’s what’s right there in the text.
I’m the first guy to say “Let the cast speak for themselves, and let’s not infer any motivations or feelings that they haven’t stated outright.” I agree with the call not to speculate on people’s feelings and emotions.
But I really don’t see this as an example of wild speculation; it’s reading the words right there up on the screen.
I fully expect that Joel has a different perspective than Trace and Frank do in all this, and as I said up above, I don’t think it’s a matter of right-versus-wrong, good-guy-versus-bad-guy, it’s just a matter of people having different outlooks on the same series of events.
But it’s clear that Frank’s outlook is that Joel is not interested in having him on the new show. It is clear because that is what Frank said.
It’s not great but I think the updates become a little more frequent when people aren’t buying what you’re selling. His most recent update yesterday has us officially landing in 9 episode territory in the next few minutes here, so if it seems like it’s selling itself okay, there’s no need to bombard people with info.
We’ve made it, even if no more rewards were sold since the last update!
4,147,450 + 255,000 = 4,402,450
You’ve got a good point there, primarily I am dying to know for sure whether K01 thru K03 are going to be made available from the source tapes through this campaign or not. If it’s not now, I feel like it will never happen. For years I was resigned to that, and then he threw it out there earlier in the campaign…the suspense is killing me! It’s silly, really, but true.
I think that if (1) it’s possible (they’ve got the tapes and they’re in viewable condition, and they can get the movie rights) and (2) Shout sees a profit to be made, it’s going to happen. It’s disappointing that it doesn’t seem to have come together in time for the Kickstarter (it still could in the last 3 days but I don’t think it’s likely), but if Shout is looking into making those episodes available I think they’ll make them available.
But yeah, it sucks to have to wait and guess and speculate.
Thank you for the perspective, Thad. You have a calming presence, it’s like someone put EricJ through Dr. F’s matter transference device. :-D
The problem with the KTMA stuff is that it really a “hardcore fan only” interest. I mean, I’m a pretty big fan of the show, and I’ve never bothered to search them out because I didn’t think they were very good. I am not even 100% sure I would buy them.
But the issue wouldn’t be me. The issue would be selling them to the general public, and having a non-fan of the show pick one up as a “what the hey let’s try it” buy, and after watching it deciding “this show is awful”. You risk hurting the reputation of a show that’s already pretty fringe as it is.
Not to say it won’t happen, but I have to imagine it would never come out as a box set, and therefore for SHOUT to spend the money to get the rights to the episodes might be a tricky thing.
The best way to do it would be publish them all together in a set you charge $90 for as “MST3K the KTMA years” and at that price point only the hard-core fans would shell out.
@skierpete: Yeah, it will have to be carefully managed. Which is why making it a reward in the Kickstarter would have been ideal.
Releasing those episodes only as a high-priced set would be a good way to make sure only hardcore fans buy them (like you say). I could also see, for example, releasing them as bonus downloads with other episodes (say, buy Season 3’s Time of the Apes, get the KTMA version free). Or they could sell them exclusively through the Info Club, or “gate” them in some other way. I dunno, I’m not a marketing guy, that’s Shout’s job, but I think you’re probably right that it’s a good idea not to just throw them in with all the other episodes.
Or not. Could be that just some judicious sorting and cataloging would solve the problem; order the episodes by top-rated instead of by chronological order and that should take care of it.
Update 18 from Joel; of interest to many here:
“PAUL CHAPLIN – old “Pitch” himself! – the veteran writer (over 144 MST3K episodes!) will be back demonstrate his mastery of “the craft we call riff”… and more important, to show the newer MST3K writers how we did it back in the day! “
New update’s up.
All five cast members confirmed as writers.
Guest writers to include Dan Harmon, Justin Roiland, Rob Schrab, Nell Scovell, Ernie Cline, Pat Rothfuss, Paul & Storm, Dana Gould, and Robert Lopez, with more names to come.
Charlie Erickson, Beez McKeever, Crist Ballas, and Paul Chaplin will return as well.
RE: KTMA.
I think I’ve already pointed out the obvious choice for them: Manufacture on Demand. I mean, how many people do you think want “Legends of the Super-Heroes”? But you can buy it right now on MOD DVD. Using that solution, only those who want them get them, but it’s still a nice looking package to put on your shelf.
Adding: yesterday showed the “raised outside of Kickstarter” total at $255K, today it’s at $310K. We’ll probably never know for sure, but I bet the supporter who pulled $25K out of Kickstarter yesterday did make a direct donation in that amount instead.
Or people just bought a lot of add-ons since last night. Like I said, we’ll probably never know for sure.
BLown away by the talent pool Joel has assembled. Dan Harmon? Rob Schrab? Dana Gould? Robert “let it go” Lopez? Amazing. And I can’t even imagine that this is the end of the announcements. Wow, just blows me away – it really just says how much influence this show has had on the up-and-coming comedians and even those that have been around a while.
Very cool that Paul Chaplin is returning. He was never a “lead” actor on the show, but based on his writing in the episode guide, he definitely was a big part of the sound of that show. I’d like to hear they were getting a few more folks back, but that’s awesome. Also – the Killer BEEZ!
Dammit skierpete, it took me two years to get that song out of my head!
Johnny who smiles vapidly and cheerfully says “I don’t care!” before sticking his head in the sand whenever an MST Alum says something about the reboot says:
“Any way you cut it, it’s still speculation. Do we know for certain that Joel is not interested in being on their show?
Frank Conniff who played TV’s Frank and who co-hosts the radio show “Tell Me Everything” with John Fugelsang was asked if Joel would be coming on their radio show to promote the reboot and stated both his opinion regarding Joel’s interest in being on their radio show and his opinion regarding Joel’s interest in having the old cast back for the reboot:
“His interest in being on our show is about the same as his interest in having MST3K cast be part of the reboot.”
Why doesn’t Johnny care to read?
“How do we know what Frank “feels” based on a disembodied text? Just because people perceive something a certain way doesn’t make it so.”
No offense, but those last two quoted lines of text have got to be one of the most purposefully obtuse and obstinately ignorant paragraphs of texts I’ve ever read in my life. It’s just “Disembodied text,” really? Yeah man, people just turn into binary code when they use a keyboard or a phone and shouldn’t be taken at their word when they use an online service to post a public statement. Other than us obviously not being psychics (which is apparently the standard you hold public discussion of the reboot to) and obviously not knowing every intricate thing that happens behind the scenes, there is nothing speculative or vague to perceive about Frank’s reply. Joel has given HIS SIDE which is he says everyone is welcome back. Now Frank has given HIS SIDE where he used a question about having Joel on their radio show to give an analogy regarding how HE feels about Joel’s stated interest in having the MST cast back. That’s no rocket science, and it’s not speculation, Johnny. I’m done with you now, Johnny. Back to cryo-time sleep at the brain institute with the other blissfully sleeping frozen monkeys.
Implication and clarity are not the same thing.
To imply means to enable (a conclusion) to be inferred
To infer means to guess; speculate; surmise.
I choose not to have an emotional reaction to everybody else’s emotional reaction. Words have meaning. The meaning is denotation. The associations, or feelings, people have about those words is connotation. Frank is not responsible for your connotation.
Just because you say it says it doesn’t mean it says it.
I had hoped that all of today’s great news about the talent (old and new!) involved with the new show, and the amazing fundraising push that we’ve been enjoying, would FINALLY be enough to put Frank’s attitude problem in the background for a while. But, I suppose that the negative nellies here have decided that this is not to be, and will keep on regurgitating and re-chewing the same handful of bitter quotes and tweets, even though there’s nothing more to be said about them that hasn’t already been said a dozen times. Disappointing, but not surprising given the inexplicably lukewarm reception that the relaunch of MST3K has received among certain people here ever since the campaign started. Personally, I prefer to focus on the future and on the positive.
You know I watched that episode just last night? Utter classic!
You probably are right about obtuseness, but the words are not as definitive as you think they seem. I was not talking about the most likely interpretations of Frank’s words. I was just saying that they don’t actually say anything. If I heard his tone of voice as being sarcastic, then it would be definitive. There is no tone. There is no body language.
“His interest in being on our show is about the same as his interest in having MST3K cast be part of the reboot.”
What if Frank had said “his interest in eating spaghetti is about the same as his interest in making spaghetti” or “his interest in playing golf is about the same as his interest in making origami…” Would that make a difference to your level of clarity?
Do you see the point? There is a comparison being made between two things that we CANNOT know what the relative level of interest in actually is. Is Frank assuming Joel isn’t interested? Probably. My point was simply that those words don’t say that and without additional information we cannot KNOW.
Cute little narrative about my ostrich routine, though. Have a RAM chip.
Johnny, you’re being deliberately obtuse. (Also, you’re clicking the Like button on your own posts.)
I, too, am done with you now.
Thad. I am what I am. I am not deliberately anything other than myself.
Why would you assume I would click the like button my own post? There’s too much assuming going on as it is.
Also, how is keeping an open mind being obtuse? It seems to me there’s a lot more wisdom in recognizing that you can’t know everything than in thinking you know everything.
WOW, at that last update from Joel. Dan Harmon, Dana Gould just to name a few, Paul and Beez are back?? SO COOL.
Ya know Johnny, I was going to pick apart all of that “disembodied text” from you above but I decided not to because it’d just be a whole lot of words and why talk at length about words that are typed when it all boils down to connotation, and denotation versus interpretation. Or something. Thanks for the RAM chip though, have some cryo-freezed monkey dung.
Thad:
“Johnny, you’re being deliberately obtuse. (Also, you’re clicking the Like button on your own posts.)
I, too, am done with you now.”
Clicking the like button on his own posts? Oh my. That Johnny is indeed one cheeky, nonchalant little monkey. But maybe he HAS to like his own posts because he genuinely feels what he has said can’t be interpreted on our plane of existence??
Thanks, Cap’n!
Will you be flinging that crap, er, dung?
Normally I don’t care, but frozen doody could be a doozy to the old dome
Oh, I see you edited your post. Maybe I’ll edit mine. It probably makes more sense to ask you this.
Will you keep flinging that crap?
Also, you’re calling a Japanese boy a monkey? That cannot be the preferred nomenclature.
Ever notice how when people cannot refute your logic, they resort to name calling end summarily ending the discussion? Telling, I think.
Ever notice how trolls keep stretching an argument to try to get a response, even though everybody else has already stopped listening to them? Telling, I think.
This is starting to get pretty weird, Johnny. Please go outside and play with Caroline for awhile.
He’s not trolling. He’s being logical instead of emotional, and continuing to argue when the other party starts name-calling and slamming their virtual doors.
It’s like that time a couple of weeks ago when I asked if Joel really offered up the first three KTMA episodes. My conclusion, which has not changed, is that he didn’t. He was hinting at offering KTMA episodes, and not specifically the lost shows. I posted that here, and you, jaybird3rd, said I was just a negative voice trying to bring everyone down and should be ignored.
Not that I’m especially interested in revisiting that argument again, but I still think Joel’s hint about “the oldest episodes of MST3K” was most likely a reference to the first three KTMA shows. Why do I say that? Well, because he dropped the hint on Kickstarter during a fundraising campaign, and why would he have brought it up there unless whatever he had in mind was intended as a way of enticing potential backers? You don’t entice backers by dropping hints like that and then offering them something that they have already had for years, like K04 and onward. Plus, the word “oldest” to me means something that was made first (crazy, I know, but that’s how I see it). K01 through K03 are indeed the oldest episodes of MST3K; K04 and onward are not.
It’s fine if you don’t want to jump to that conclusion, even though it still seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable one, but what I don’t get is why anyone would insist that Joel must have meant something other than K01 through K03. Why would anyone who calls themselves a fan of the show want to believe so badly that these shows are permanently out of reach? That’s why I thought it was unnecessarily negative and pessimistic.
And for whatever it’s worth, no, I don’t believe that Joel actually offered those shows, and I never claimed that he did. He hinted very strongly that we might get to see them (his remarks were the written equivalent of an exaggerated wink and a nudge), but he deliberately avoided making any firm promises until he was sure that they could deliver on those promises, which I think was very prudent of him. We haven’t heard anything more about these shows since, which tells me that they either can’t find the original tapes or are having other problems which forbade the announcement that Joel obviously wanted to make. There aren’t many people who want to see those “lost” episodes more than me, but I’m not especially bothered by this. We’ve waited this long; why worry about having to wait until after the Kickstarter campaign? If they indeed still have them, I’m sure they’ll see the light someday.
jaybird3rd:
“Plus, the word “oldest” to me means something that was made first.”
Nah, that’s just your “emotional interpretation” of the word “oldest.” By saying “oldest,” it’s highly unlikely Joel meant the first three KTMA episodes any more than Mel Brooks was telling the truth when he kept telling us all these years that he was “The 2,000 year old man.” I mean, I know Mel Brooks is old but 2,000 years old? Really? Come on.
I’m not sure where and why you jump to me ‘wanting the episodes to remain lost’, but you sure leapt that gap.
I value honesty and the truth over rampant speculation.
It was never about what I or any fan wanted; it was about not spending lottery winnings before they draw the balls.
If I may…..I must announce that I pledged for Exp 5000 and will be appearing on MST3K in a cameo!
It’s hard to describe how exciting this is.
CapCab, the oldest episodes are the KTMA episodes. NONE of which have been officially released.
But, okay, yeah, I get that interpreting things with logic isn’t your thing.
As Uncle Scrooge would say in the classic Carl Barks comics, my stars and garters! Ya done good, Droppo!
Seriously, that is really cool, congrats! Keep us updated when the time gets near.
@#429: There’s nothing “rampantly speculative” about reading what Joel actually said and taking it at face value. And what’s wrong with drawing the conclusion that K01-K03 might potentially be released, anyway? It’s not as if anybody went and told people to pledge to the campaign because those episodes were a sure thing; if they had, your “not spending lottery winnings before they draw the balls” analogy might make sense. We’re not talking about speculative investing here; just the fans getting excited that the campaign might lead to the unveiling of something we’ve all wanted to see for a long time.
But, whatever. Keep being pessimistic (or “realistic,” as you would probably insist). It seems that a certain faction of MST fans express their fandom by always being as tentative and as negative as possible. Whatever it was that Joel really had in mind, I’m sure he’ll tell us when the time is right.
Laziest cameo on Mars! Congrats, man. Wish I could do the same, but my wife said my young kids should get Christmas presents, and having their names in the credits of future episodes did not count…
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/oldest
Synonyms for oldest
adj
-earliest
-first
-original
-primeval
Hmmm, I guess the Thesaurus doesn’t like interpreting things with logic either.
And oldest arbitrarily stops at the first three episodes out of 197 why, exactly?
All 21 of the KTMA episodes are the earliest, first, original, primeval episodes of the show.
Uhh … because they’re the episodes that were made first, which is kinda what the word “oldest” actually means???
But fine, if you insist on defining “oldest” so elastically, why stop at the first 21 episodes? Why not claim that Joel also could have meant any episode from the first season? Those could also be considered the “oldest” episodes by your reasoning.
hair·split·ting
?her?splidiNG/
adjective
adjective: hair-splitting
1.
characterized by or fond of small and overfine distinctions.
“legal experts have a particularly hairsplitting mentality”
synonyms: pedantic, pettifogging; More
quibbling, niggling, caviling, carping, critical, overcritical, hypercritical;
informalnitpicking, persnickety, picky
“his hair-splitting aunt had gotten even more critical with age”
noun
noun: hair-splitting
1.
the action of making small and overfine distinctions; quibbling.
Because the first season episodes have already been released. We fans aren’t clamoring for them; we already have them.
No KTMA episode has been officially released.
CapCab, your ability to cut and paste from a dictionary webpage with only a few formatting errors is awe-inspiring.
But your inability to cogently express your point in an actual argument is distressing.
We have K04 through K21 already, too (albeit as unofficial fan copies). And what does the fact that they’re unofficial have to do with anything? Just because these episodes haven’t been officially released doesn’t change the definition of “oldest.”
Let me ask you parents out there a question. Let’s say that you have five kids, and let’s say that you tell a friend one day that “the oldest” is in sixth grade. Which of the following two interpretations of that statement would you consider to be the most reasonable?
1: The child who was born first is in sixth grade.
2: Any one of the first three kids could be the one who is in sixth grade, because any one of them could be considered “the oldest” since they were all born before the youngest two.
I don’t know anybody other than Herandar who would pick option two.
This conversation = “AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!”
@#442: Don’t blame me; I wasn’t the one who wanted to dig up the “KTMA episode conundrum” again.
But, moving on now (please!) to better news: the Kickstarter campaign is now less than $1M away from the big $5.5M goal! The momentum today has been incredible, and tonight’s Double Feature (which typically comes with a surge of pledges and new backers) hasn’t even started yet! Things are looking good for the last two days!
My oldest children are twins. They are both in the first grade.
Okay, fine. But contrary to what you seem to think, not all 21 KTMA episodes were made at exactly the same time, and the word “oldest” actually means something other than what you seem to think it means. Now can we please just drop it and get back to talking about the fundraising campaign???
Speaking of which … the campaign is about to reach 82% funding for the $5.5M goal!
When did I ever imply they were made at the same time?
My point has always been that “oldest” is not specific, and you shouldn’t assume that it just means the three episodes that you want. There are 197 kids in a school, the oldest kids are in the sixth grade.
You can’t determine the number of kids with just that information. Just like lumping someone’s solitary opinion as belonging to a “certain faction of fandom” is stereotyping someone based on limited information. You may be cool with that, but it really isn’t okay with me. I’d say something about white male privilege as an example, but that would just be intentionally incendiary and using the same presumptions I just harangued against.
Wow — I almost hate to wade in here, but it’s the last 30 or so comments that make me question whether this generation is going to be able to function after their elders have moved on.
(Nowhere does the expression “Get a life” have greater pertinence. Who the hell cares what Frank does or does not think, or whether Joel did or did not imply things about the KTMA episodes? What will be, will be, and speculating about it is about like the scholars who wondered how many angels could dance on the head of a pin — the answer, by the way, is 42).
#447 – Hear hear.
hey i hate to say it… but for us oldbies, it’s getting to “tears” territory. dare i say it? (and from some young-bies i talk to, they like the idea too!)
MST3K is coming back. and it’s gonna be something to see effin’ awesome fun, whatever i bet!
drink a coupla tall shots of “old grand-dad” and put on your chillers. something weird and awesome this way comes…
getting that “on-the-air” thing would be awesome, even if it’s “just” “HD-tv-extended” channel something. the original wasn’t “over the air” after the “0-th” season. imagine all the kids out there out in the cornfields who can’t even get good net or allowance to buy over-the-net shows… imagining all the minnesota/wisconsin kids out in the boondocks who never got the original mst, eh?
i’m loving the idea anymore, because it really completes the triumverate – discs/phys, online, and over-the-air eyeballs. don’t discount over-the-air – that could easily be 10x the KS’s number of viewers… :)