What references or assessments made in the show or ACEG do you disagree with? I mean, not everyone hates high energy prop comic Carrot Top or there wouldn’t be anyone going to his shows, right? Maybe there are MSTies that love Gallagher, Carrot Top or Jim Carrey. My personal disagreements with the writers are minor in nature. I may stand alone on this (like Tom and his affection for “Blanksy’s Beauties”) but Jim Varney was not as terrible as they implied. Of course the Ernest character was idiotic but he took it and made a very funny Saturday morning show back in the late ‘80s. It was on the air at about the same time as “Pee Wee’s Playhouse.” It only lasted one season and was silly at times, but also sly and satirical (sound like any other show you know of? Hmmmm?). My other dispute, even more minor, is that in ACEG Michelle from “Girl in Gold Boots” is referred to (I think by Paul Chaplin) as “zaftig’. Whenever I watch that episode, I think to myself ”I should be so zaftig”
I have one I mentioned in the episode guide: I’m a huge Counting Crows fan and, while Adam’s “wounded soldier of love” schtick can wear a little thin after a while, in general I don’t find it, or the band, repellant. The bit was still funny, though.
Is there any riff or observation where you disagree?
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@Mike in Portland: if you’re implying that’s what Mansquatch did, I respectfully disagree. First of all, he posted before Frank did, and his later comments were not personally directed at Frank. Mansquatch made precisely the point made by MST3K in the host segments “Supercalifragilisticexpialiwacky” and in Crow’s Jay Leno Congress jokes–political jokes are often pandering, low-hanging fruit. It was Frank that decided that point was a personal slight towards him and his fellow writers.
@87 “wetback” comment… one of my fav shows of all time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgdlKEvJnuo
(note to myself: never never EVER get in an argument with someone I admire highly, such as folks involved with MST3K, even if it’s under a silly AV name… I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night even if I did say “but I still love ya Frank” at the end. Won’t happen… some things are sacred to me, get me through hard times, and MST3k’s creators and performers are among them, along with my dogs and my mama. ;) )
@ 126 “I mean you have to figure that a love for low-budget fare was a gateway to MST3K for a lot of people (and vice-versa!), and without doubt it represented some unknown percentage of my reasons for watching” This is me, 100%. Love that stuff before MSt3K and still remember when The Creeping Terror left my 10 year old self feeling kind of weirded out, a bit scared and uneasy, and happy at the same time. Not sure if I would have totally gotten the jokes on MST3K at 10 yrs old. Might have been like one of the phone calls they got when they were local TV “I wish you guys wouldn’t talk so much during the movie”. :D
What type of phony screen name is Gern Blanston?
Anyway…
Cosmic coincidence time – I was just thinking of submitting this very topic as a Weekend Discussion idea! And what prompted it was my recent purchase of Beck’s Odelay album. I listened to the whole thing and went “Man, this guy is a musical genius! Why did the Brains rag on him so much?” I was forcibly reminded of that riff from “Time Chasers” where they see the name “Heather Killingbeck” in the credits and they go “Wow, what a great name!” That seems incredibly harsh.
Mansquatch, No – YOU get ben – oh wait, you apologized. Cool.
Hate to see people arguing but I like how this discussion literally became a person disagreeing with one of the Brains. Most literal following of a discussion thread topic ever.
I know how much the Brains disliked having to instill continuity into the SciFi series, but I loved it. I felt it brought us closer to the characters. And I absolutely disagree with Mike about how a storyline wouldn’t make sense because sometimes they play episodes out of order. Well, that happens all the time with “story” series, and it hasn’t hurt them at all. It’s not like they created a complicated, “Lost”-like storyline or anything.
@150 – You. I like you.
Sure, this may be a heated discussion, but it sure is an interesting read! Bring it on, I say.
The only riffs that have ever truly gotten under my skin are some of the off-the-cuff KTMA ones that veered into racist territory. I mean, I know inside that just it was a tiny local show made by some young white fellows before the dawn of the PC era of the 90s, but there’s a few eyebrow-raisers in there all the same. (And they obviously disagreed with themselves, since that all stuff went out with the start of the first season.)
I also disagree that Styx and other prog rock bands are the result of Hell bubbling over, but damned if I still don’t laugh anyway ;)
I feel MST’s political riffs sorta go both ways, and compared to a typical Yahoo comment section or TV pundit – it’s pretty darn mellow commentary. I hear worse from my father-in-law just after standing next to the man for five minutes.
My two are music related:
In “Village of the Giants,” they make a few cracks at the excellent Jack Nitszche track “The Last Race,” which plays over the opening credits. I love that song and think Nitszche is such an underrated pop composer. Also, Tarantino used “The Last Race” in Death Proof.
Another opening credits tune: They dis Motorhead’s “Ace of Spades” at the beginning of “Zombie Nightmare.” You just don’t mess with Lemmy.
Wow, so much to which to react, but I’ll limit myself.
On the general topic, sure I “disagreed” sometimes, but funny is funny, yes? It’s not like the Paula Cole jokes were inherently funnier than the Styx jokes just because I “agreed” with one and not the other. Riff away, boys, and worry not about offending or alienating – and I say that as a genuine Keanu Reeves fan. (Come on, man, I can’t be the only one!)
#126 – Great post!
Finally, hey, I love TV’s Frank, too, but I have to say, as far as all the nastiness here: he started it.
This isn’t a disagreement per se, but as a longtime hardcore Deadhead*, I’ve always taken special note of the riffs and host segments which lampoon the Grateful Dead and the Deadhead scene. Unlike some groups of rabid fans — MSTies, I’m not looking at you — one of the cool things about being a Deadhead is having a sense of humor, especially about yourself.
I can’t really be offended or disagree as every joke at the expense of Deadheads strikes me funny, because I know which kinds of ‘Heads they make fun of; I ran across them in numerous parking lots in the seventeen years I went to shows (1978-95) and, to be quite honest, I found them laughable as well — like your “bliss ninny”, portrayed by Gypsy in that one host segment commenting “…and then the Moon came out, and it was like Jerry willed it!”. Then there were all those movie scenes showing VW microbuses and the Brains riffing “…hey, man, we’re goin’ to see the Dead in Iowa City, ya’ wanna come?” or singing the chorus from “Deal”, and that scene in The Phantom Creeps where Dr. Zorka and Monk stop to pick up that bearded hitchhiking hobo and Joel riffs “…hey, you guys goin’ to see the Dead? Hey d’ya hear that Pigpen died…?”
If I had to disagree with the Brains, it would have to be that host segment in The Dead Talk Back where they’re all in tie-dyed shirts and Crow is made up to look like Garcia, and playing that endless guitar solo that’s nothing but noodling on scales. I, for one, have always dug those jazzy, stretched-out meltdown jams in the second set and, in all fairness, Garcia’s soloing style was actually much more complex and nuanced than that. Still, I couldn’t stay mad for very long — I mean, it’s just a show, I should really just relax.
.
*yeah, that’s right, a Deadhead and a MSTie. How sad is that?
I also am pretty certain sometimes they just made their “characters” hate something because the film gave them a good setup to show hate for that something.
“killingbeck” might be one such instance, for example. Like, hey the credit’s just standing there waiting for that joke. Making fun of credits probably became so reflexive the subject of the joke probably didn’t matter. I rarely can even watch a movie anymore without credit jokes coming to mind because of mst!
I really dug Jim Varney in the mid ’80s when he was doing a series of commercials for a local Toyota dealer here in the Washington, DC area. It really was brilliant stuff. Problem was, that when he tried to make his shtick into something the length of a TV show or movie, it got old fast as he really was better as a short-sketch comic.
For the record, I’ve been an early ’70s prog fan ever since — well, since the early ’70s, and still listen to my Yes, King Crimson and Jethro Tull albums on a regular basis.
Still, I love when they slag on Emerson, Lake & Palmer and Asia. I thought the first two or three ELP albums were really fine, but when they got into that overwrought Brain Salad Surgery period and Emerson started riding the flying piano onstage, that pretty much finished ELP for me.
Don’t even get me started about Asia. When I saw who was in that group, I really was expecting something great, but what I got was that bombastic pile with one of the most annoying synth hooks of any rock’n’roll record ever made.
I have to confess that despite my being really into early/mid ’90s alt rock, I totally missed out on the Lisa Loeb thing. While reacquainting myself with MST3K a couple of years ago, I stumbled over the Lisa Loeb hexfield bit in the opening host segment of Racket Girls and had to hit Google to find out who she was. As luck would have it, one of the search hits was a YouTube link to the video for her song “Stay” — the very same video that’s parodied in that host segment. It was like everything about ’90s alt rock that begged to be mocked all wrapped up in one video by one singer — the monotonous, sing-songy melody, the moping lyrics, the faux angst; you name it, “Stay” had it. The MST3K set and lighting folks got the look letter-perfect: the moody light and shadow, the sparse, empty room — and, Bridget totally nailed Lisa Loeb: the black stockings, the black dress, the haircut, the glasses, the vocal affectations, the simpering little-girl temper tantrum body language, absolutely priceless.
I also rather dig the Black Crowes myself, but I still got a kick out of the “Black Crowes lead-singer thin” riff in Last Of The Wild Horses — their singer really did make Keith Richard look like Leslie West — especially as it set up a bunch of awesome riffs about how that skinny cowboy boss at the Double Cranch was trying to find his butt (jeezus, I laughed until I hurt at the riffing in that scene).
Justin says:
January 5, 2013 at 11:06 am
…I remember that the Brains had some pet peeves, and one major one was one-note, flavor-of-the-month comedians. Joel never seemed to care for show business, so I guess the usual gushing over someone who just wasn’t that funny (followed by endless movies that were terrible too) got to them. History has proven them right a few times: Pauly Shore was actually taken seriously circa 1992, for crying out loud.
Call me mean — no, really, go ahead — but I gleefully relished when the Brains mocked the aforementioned comedians, especially Gallagher. Seriously, what would his act have been without smashing watermelons? Carrot Top? Wild red hair is all I really remember about him, but mysteriously somehow, was actually a huge star for a year or two. Gilbert Gottfried? Ugly squinty face, grating obnoxious voice — yet a bunch of people actually thought he was funny for about a month and a half.
And, I’ll just finish here by saying that looking back, I’m proud to have been one of those people who detested Pauly Shore back when detesting Pauly Shore wasn’t cool.
@148. Comedies like Monty Python and Are You Being Served? being shot on videotape can get away with the look, but a science fiction series like Dr. Who just came off as looking cheap. There’s an episode of Who’s Line is it Anyway? in which Stephen Fry has a role of bubble wrap. He says, “Look, either the BBC is going to support of Dr. Who or it’s not. I can’t make seventeen monsters out of this.”
Re: political jokes on MST3K:
I’ve never had any issue with the political gags, though I have to agree that targets like Rush Limbaugh are low-hanging fruit. In the interest of full disclosure, though, I’ll state here that my politics are so Left that I make Liberals look like John Boehner. Let’s just say that I’ve been called an anarchist to my face and taken it as a compliment.
But, aaaaaaanyway…
Granted, they really like to tee off on Republicans, but as a previous poster said, they’re the kind of politicians who practically set themselves up for parody. They’re the proverbial jokes that write themselves.
Still, as I watched more and more MST3K, I noticed that indeed nothing is sacred, and that Democrats and Liberals come in for a lot of skewering as well. One of my favorite riffs from Bride Of The Monster is Crow commenting that “…actually, Bela Abzug is a lot scarier than Bela Lugosi…”. Then, there’s the riffing on the bombing practice scenes from Starfighters, where Servo says “…welcome to the Rainbow Gathering, peace is possible in our time!” just before a Sidewinder slams into a practice target on a hillside. I got a special personal kick out that riff as in all the years I’ve spent working in the peace/labor/social-justice progressive activist community, nothing got on my nerves quite like the blissed-out, naive, absurdly-detached-from-reality Rainbow Family types.
mansquatch, this is from your first post about political humor, the one Frank was originally responding to…
“There are exceptions, but when I’ve looked at comedy over the years, especially the past 20 or 30, partisan politics is where comedians go when they’re simply not funny anymore. Comedy writing for the lazy.”
Considering that Frank is currently very heavily involved in writing and performing political humor now as both his job, and in the various other projects he works on like various podcasts and his Twitter feed, how could you not expect him to take quite a bit of offense from that? And then you went on to directly insult his friend and coworker John Fugelsang as well? But poor you getting picked on by mean old Frank…
MikeK says:
January 7, 2013 at 2:17 pm
@148. Comedies like Monty Python and Are You Being Served? being shot on videotape can get away with the look, but a science fiction series like Dr. Who just came off as looking cheap. There’s an episode of Who’s Line is it Anyway? in which Stephen Fry has a role of bubble wrap. He says, “Look, either the BBC is going to support of Dr. Who or it’s not. I can’t make seventeen monsters out of this.”
Y’know, it’s interesting… I first got into Dr. Who in the early ’80s, when PBS was picking up all the Tom Baker episodes, and after I quit snickering at the production values, I realized after a while that it was the “cheap” look that actually gave the old Dr. Who episodes their charm. Once I got my head around the idea that it really was a kind of “pulp” sci-fi serial, I didn’t really care that the production values weren’t up to Kubrick standards and started getting into Tom Baker’s portrayal of the Doctor (In fact, I pretty much gave up on it a couple of seasons after Tom Baker left because the guy who took over as the Doctor just wasn’t doing it for me).
We have the BBC America channel on our satellite subscription here, and I checked in on the current “retooled” Dr. Who and was deeply disappointed — not just because of the emo-looking actor they cast as the Doctor, but because the production values were so “uptown” that it didn’t have any charm anymore.
Btw, same for MST3K; the designers and builders of the SOL bridge, Deep 13 and Castle Forrester managed to create entirely believable “worlds” without losing the kind of charm that only comes from “cheapness”. One of the things I liked about the SciFi Channel seasons is that despite all the upgrades to the SOL bridge set, and all the cool moving/multi-camera shots and dramatic lighting, they kept its classic look; they also didn’t succumb to the temptation to re-create the Doorway Sequence as a slick, uptown 3D SGI animation, despite the advances in quality and decreasing costs of CGI in the late ’90s, and despite the fact that nearly every damn’ TV show on the air at the time was infested with twirling, flashing, glinting, swooping, zooming, swooshing CGI animated titles.
I agree Mansquatch was out of line attacking Frank’s profession, though
I wish Frank had risen above it rather then getting dirty with him.
But on another, lighter note, Mike Nelson might want to stage an intervention
with retiring Ssec. of Def. Leon Panetta. At the ceremony today he announced
he’s retiring to work on his WALNUT FARM! Doesn’t he realize what hard work
that is?
Btw, i liked the old Doctor Who’s better then the recent ones, esp. John Pertwee and Tom Baker (including some droll humor and, with some of Tom Baker’s, good production values and stories—City of Death and the 6 Key of Time episodes).
cronkite, if you want to continue to beat a dead horse, all i can say is that he was posting his (non-specific) comments in a thread entitled “Disagreeing with the Brains”. I think it is a healthy sign for a fan community to take an (infrequent) moment and say what they don’t like about something they otherwise like quite a bit.
@Mike Flugennock The affection that fans of the old series had is part of why it made it so nerdy. I guess that’s where the jokes come from. I don’t mind some cheaply made sets and what-not, as long as it’s filmed well. I just don’t think that the old Dr. Who looks good on video, but that’s the way it was shot so what can you do?
Stephen says:
January 7, 2013 at 12:50 pm
My two are music related:
In “Village of the Giants,” they make a few cracks at the excellent Jack Nitszche track “The Last Race,” which plays over the opening credits. I love that song and think Nitszche is such an underrated pop composer…
I discovered Jack Nitzsche a few years ago via a record collectors’ blog run by a DJ at the famous WFMU-FM, who goes by the name of “Kogar The Swinging Ape”… and, yeah, Jack Nitzsche frickin’ kills, man. I’ve always been partial to “The Lonely Surfer”, myself.
As a big Gary Numan fan, I always loved it when they made fun of him… since most of the time people in the US have no idea who he is.
At the Gateway SciFi Convention 2000 in St. Louis, I wore a Gary t-shirt and even got to ask a question of the cast (with Kevin holding the mic for me as he worked the crowd) but I forgot to tell them I was wearing the shirt to say “thank you” for all the times they made fun of him! At least they were putting his name out there.
#168
Blake’s 7 and Hitchhiker’s Guide to Galaxy were done the same way. All these shows generally used film for scenes shot on location. The third doctor’s first story was shot entirely on film, and is getting a Blu Ray release soon.
The revived DW series has been shooting on digital video since day one, and only recently went HD.
#171 I like how the MST movie also kept the look of the show intact even with the larger more expansive SOL sets.
I thought they were a little harsh to Lisa Loeb. I always had a soft spot for her.
@radioman970
WOW @ racist Grandpa Munster, good grief.
I really have no problems with who and what they make fun of. That goes for current era Rifftrax & CT. Making fat jokes is fine by me. I was terribly overweight during my wifes pregnancy and and first year with our twins. I’m not anymore, but I never took offense. They always go for a broad spectrum of comedy, if one person doesn’t get a joke, maybe the person next to you will. At least that’s how it seems. I’ve had more than a few MST3K-era terribly obscure jokes explained to me by people watching with me, mainly because I was either not old enough to get it, or just clueless. :)
@ 171. note about MST3K not going cgi. Amen! It never crossed my mind that they might do that. Glad they didn’t! Joel standing on that set with those bots would not have translated as well to Mike on some bluescreen set with the bots.
I like the comments about video taped stuff and the cheese factor. I grew up w/ cheesy Krofft and everything Saturday morning in the 60s and 70s has such a strong nostalgic glee for me it’s hard to relate to anyone who has a problem with the look of Dr. Who, Blakes7 (and other lesser “hip” shows, Tomorrow People, AYBS? for that matter). I love those *because* of how they look.
@180. My heart sunk a little when I saw grandpa do that. I’ve been watching that show since the 70s (after I realized that Herman & grandpa were not to be feared). So it’s sad my young mind saw that before I could see it as a bit over the line. My sister used to call her ex-hubby (a MST3K fan like all of us so a good sense of humor) that same slur. He was half Spanish actually and acted as if he thought it was funny. His mother was all Spanish (I believe) and bought my young niece The Three Caballeros (which she watched endlessly) and sis & mom poked fun at that as well. None of it was to be mean, just a joke like calling someone from the south a cracker. I don’t know where the Spanish slur falls, I’d say much worse than cracker but less as the n-word. Anyway, watching grandpa speak that way in a old TV show I treasure so much is disappointing.
The political comments bothered me the most too. I mean they did make fun of Bill Clinton at times, but their attacks were meaner to the right and face it if it was more attacks to the left more left people would be complaining about that because I seen maybe people disappointed and even upset to hear Mike is more right leaning according to an interview I read a few years ago. I do hand the respect that they never made fun of Jesus or God at least I never seen an episode that did so. If anything they may have made fun of certain “Christians” out there but never Jesus Himself.
Sometimes they were a little mean too I mean in Santa Clause Conquers the Martians with the comment after “Pills for dinner?” “Who are We Judy Garland”? it made me laugh but it was messed up.
If you happen to stumble across the Ernest Family Album (VHS or DVD), get it. It’s hilarious. I’m not saying his films were great, some weren’t ever good, but EFA is fantastic.
#182 The closest MST ever got to greenscreen sets was for the reunion skit they did about disposing of your “Godzilla Vs. Megalon” DVD. It was a bonus on the movie that replaced it in the Rhino set. They were essentially matted into empty still shots of the SOL and Deep 13.
I could see them doing that for an actual reunion show to keep costs down, but making miniature sets to preserve the charm. ;)
That shot in the opening during the SciFi years of Mike and the bots in the window of the SOL, is probably the most hi tech sequence in the entire series.
I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but the “bald” jokes directed at Raymond Bailey in The Space Children kinda got old after the first half dozen or so. one is funny, six or eight is just being mean.
Not since Joel vs Mike have I seen so many misties forget we’re all part of the same cult.
I take the riffing like it’s a roast, for example Rifftrax does a few movies I actually like. I still find the jokes funny even though I enjoy the movie by it’s self. I have to admit some of the movies like Avengers while being a fairly good movie has a lot of flaws and ridicules situations making it ripe for riffing.
The only time I have really been offended or disagreed has been recently about 5 months or so ago when the Frank on Salon stuff was going on, Franks Opinionated political jive really got to me. I shouldn’t have been so surprised by his liberal views, I just never really thought of him as a political guy.
It’s cool he enjoys writing that kind of comedy, I guess I’m just a little disappointed hes so far to the left and not more balanced.
That being said I still enjoy his work on MST3K and Cinematic Titanic. I think something we can all take away from this thread with the mansquach/frank argument is that as fans we forget that our entertainment is someone else 9-5 job and we aren’t as tactful as might be appropriate. Certainly none of here mean to insult the very people who make what we enjoy. We all have preconceived expectations of who these people are and how the should behave, but they are just people, they get offended just as easy as the rest of us. What I’m trying to say here is we as fans can be a bit insensitive and you the celebrity movie riffing comedians should try not to take what we say to heart. After all, we are here because we enjoy the art you create.
“that reminds me of a giant penis!” “uh Frank, we’re gonna have to ask you to try a little harder”
Speaking of things that remind me of a giant penis, the only time I ever bristle is when it’s clear that the “joker” isn’t interested in serving a laugh so much as he is targeting people he personally hates. With Frank, I get the impression -probably because he more or less said it- that he mocks people who don’t agree with him out of spite, and making his audience laugh is just an afterthought. He seems extremely angry and bitter when it comes to people who don’t sit on his side of the fence, without much humor involved.
On the other hand, the riffing on MST3K never offended me because I never got the impression that there was any malice behind their joking. They were poking fun and serving up laughs, and even if they stepped on a few toes in the process, that was never the intention and it was so obvious they didn’t that you didn’t even feel like asking for an apology. Frank, you helped give me and all of us here some of the richest, deepest belly laughs we’ve ever had, but you’re not incidentally stepping on people’s toes nowadays; you’re stomping on their insteps and then calling their mothers nasty names. Not cool.
If I’m wrong in my assessment, I’ll write out an apology, in 16 different languages and in all seven colors of the rainbow, on whatever body part you wish. I’ll even buy you airfare to come over and get pictures. But notice how whenever Mike, Kevin, Bill, Joel, Mary Jo, Trace and the others get a link here, the comments section isn’t completely shut down? Food for thought.
I propose a duel. Frank and two others of his choice could riff of that “2016 Obama’s America” (or whatever it’s called) movie, and Mike & co. could do “Capitalism: A Love Story (or any one of the countless low-fi Liberal documentaries that litter Netflix). Funniest riffing wins. I’m sure there’s absolutely no way that this could go wrong, at all. Just as long as no one actually tries to judge it.
That’s the thing about writers, performers and performance art. it’s kinda their job to create an entertaining experience that their audience can relate to. When it’s done well, like on mst3k, you start to think you actually kind of know the people performing. So it can be quite jarring when you find out just how little you actually know.
I disagree when people say that these artists should keep their personal politics private. It takes a lot of hard work and dedication to reach the level of cultural relevance needed to have ANYTHING you say or do matter to anyone. To squander that would go against every creative instinct they’ve worked so hard to acquire in the first place.
That being said, I hope that politics is not the reason Frank hasn’t been invited for a Rifftrax. Come to think of it, I don’t think Rifftrax and CT have ever crossed over, have they? Until just now, I always just assumed it was an effort to establish two distinctly different movie-riffing entities. If these brilliant minds can’t get past those differences, what hope is there for us dummies?
“2016: Obama’s America is a hateful, failed attempt at “humor”, obviously
made by someone suffering from Obama Derangement Syndrome.
Thank goodness Frank is an intelligent satirist.
#33 & #36 – You BOTH show your ignorance. His name is “Crank-whore.”
They once slammed comedic actress Denny Dillon (somewhat gratuitously, I thought). I can only imagine that there is some backstory there. Perhaps she broke the “First Rule of Prop Comedy” (i.e., never touch somebody else’s props) ;-).
Of course, despite my respect for the talented Ms. Dillon, I still laughed at the joke….
In “Werewolf,” Mike comments that at least our wooden heroine emotes more than Gillian Anderson. I always thought her character Scully from The X Files was cool because she wasn’t your typical hysterical female, yet she still had a personality, so she didn’t come off as cold and bland. Petty perhaps but that’s my two cents. Of course I admit I might be a bit bias; I started watching The X Files at about age 13 and developed my second major crush ever on Fox Mulder (the character, definately not the actor David Duchovny, who has sadly slipped into dirty old man territory as of late). He was intense, deidcated, and dare I say… dreamy? Yeah I was a dopey kid. (And no I won’t tell you who I had my first fictional crush on as that would make me sound even more like a geek, which of course you all know I must be anyway….)
The few anime riffs were a little harsh; I do enjoy the occasional animated creation from the Land of the Rising Sun. I think people are fairly rough on Sailor Moon and Pokemon; they were heavily edited and watered down for sensative America audiences. I am not such a rabid fan that I will complain about sub vs. dub; both are fine with me as long as done well.
Finally, (and yes, I know this is long winded,) I agree that the jabs at various actors’ and actress’ personal appearnces sometimes crossed the line. As someone who is less than breathtaking myself, I am perhaps a bit sensative about this kind of thing. My brother used to say I liked the Drew Carey Show (yes, yes, I know) because I thought if an ugly person like Drew could succeed in show biz, than so could I. I wasn’t really offended, but thought, “Hmm, maybe that’s true…. but nah, it probably doesn’t work as well with women, having a goofy look to play off.”
Anywho, thanks for reading if you did, or even if you didn’t! If I talk about these things to most people, I get a blank stare like someone looking at a TV tuned to static. (But not the Midnight Channel) So anyway, buh bye!
I’m actually quite fond of Rush, unlike the Brains, as well as their home country, Canada. By contrast, MST3k is the reason why I hate Journey. I also quite enjoyed Jack Nitzsche’s bass-heavy music score for “Village of the Giants.” I’m sure there’s other ones too, but they’re too small for me to remember.
@ 185. Hey, for a reunion show I’d look the other way if they cgi’d some stuff! ;)
Ah so this thread has taught me many Mysties are over-sensitive obese nerds who love prog rock, Jim Varney, and Ren fests. Also that crybaby republican douchenozzles hate TVs Frank because they lack any ability to be funny and are deeply jealous of one of the radest dudes on planet earth.
Also, I love Yes. And Tvs Frank.
(Tongue firmly in cheek)
I disagreed with the brains on quite a few things. Gallagher, Mike Myers, and Rush to name three. Emerson Lake and Palmer is another one.
However, there are some views on the various movies that I didn’t agree with either. One, never understood why they were so upset over Carrie’s death in “Girls in Lover’s Lane”, their view that “The Crawling Hand” was their best episode of Season 1. so many minor things I didn’t agree with.
@14 Sums it up. I liked Smashing Pumpkins, Lisa Loeb, Jim Carrey, Howard Stern, and Marilyn Manson (though the two riffs/refs play off his image as a Satanist rather than dis his music, much like his mentor Reznor in the few Nine Inch Nails refs they made), but the Brains were the ones who really taught me to “agree to disagree”. The main part of that lesson was their short column in Entertainment Weekly rating worst post-
apocalypse movies, and I skipped the intro and instead bemoaned the “idiots” picking Beyond Thunderdome… only to find out those idiots were the Brains. Much internal backtracking and lesson-learning that day.
The gay issue is very close to me as a bi-male, but the only times I thought maybe they were intolerant (BIG maybe) was The Hellcats artist-attack scene (and Crow’s wary “uh-huh” makes me think they, or at least Trace, knew the joke might be taken as anti and delivered it that way) and the Eww! at “Now they’re gonna neck in the alley!” joke in Teenage Strangler (still, if there was some prejudice there, it means whoever wrote it is at least “pure” enough not to fall into the ancient “but if it’s two chicks, then oh yeah!” trap). The Mads Home Life sketch, though I can understand how it would strike people that way, comes across more as “seeing your parents get romantic” than anti-LGBT.
I agree a bit on obesity, probably because I struggled with it in my early teens and it’s been a problem for my father. The exception is Joe Don Baker, since he was the one who was a total jerk regarding their treatment of him in Mitchell. In that it had less to do with weight and more the unappealability of the character in general, and if he had just been lightly miffed instead of going all tough guy “beat-you-up”, something tells me they would have taken it easier on him, especially as Geronimo is a better hero than Mitchell.
@42 Despite the above note I agree, and have toyed with writing an essay/blog-series on political correctness and MST3K. I truly respect everyone’s opinions in this matter (I’ll take a more sensitive MST fan over a “MIKE IS THE ANTICHRIST! RIFFTRAX SUXS!” poster anyday), but the “Most Offensive Moments” discussion made me realize there are some in this fandom who (IMO) don’t seem to grasp that MST is squarely in the “comedy through stereotypes” category.
@43 Haven’t heard that one yet, but I’m betting Rifftrax and their writers know enough about the Rowling influences controversy to make it fall under “comedy stereotypes”. It was a mega-debate at one time who Rowling was “ripping off”, and still is despite several of the “ripped off” (Gaiman, Pratchett) stating numerous times they were just as guilty of borrowing from older sources as Rowling.
@44 Benny Hill was the first British show I ever saw, and I will always (strike tip my hat) goose it for showing me the other side of the pond’s potential. From there I went on to Hitchhiker’s Guide, Red Dwarf, and the Young Ones in terms of comedy, and it probably deserves a smidgen of credit for eventually making me a massive Doctor Who fan.
@59 I’m the opposite. I love those books because no matter how much I disagree with Mike & Kevin their
reviews are so funny I can put my personal opinions aside.
@60 I’m a Texas native, and worst reaction I’ve had to a Texas joke was Mike’s “Backwards Jackass” comment
in Chicken of Tomorrow, and that was just a friendly “oh screw you, dude!” flip-off. My mom raised me to both love and loathe the state I grew in, because it deserves both. Besides, I’ve seen worse – the Seattle Sentinel writing off all Texans, with zero humor, as being Bush-voting gun-loving troglodytes comes to mind.
Seriously, the Seattle Sentinel can go fnarg itself.
@63 THAT is it all summed up, and big surprise, it comes from Frank himself. My BFF loathed Depeche Mode
(calling it “music to slit your wrist by”), wasn’t able to watch Doctor Who till the modern show and even
then she’s still a skeptic, and outright said TV Tropes really was ruining my life, but she was still my
BFF and the funniest person I will ever know. Also, much as I like the Rifftrax, I include Titanic in my
Top 100 movies, maybe even Top 50. And the second they announce you as a guest-riffer, Frank, is the first
time I buy a Rifftrax on announcement (okay, Joel’ll get the same treatment, but I LOVE YOU, TV’S FRANK!)
@69 That is one of the main three reasons I became BF’s with the girl mentioned above (other two is she
was cute and a Nine Inch Nails fan) – she namedropped MST out of nowhere in our first real conversation,
and I was like “I thought I was the only one who watched that show!”
@70 Exactly. After months of resisting I and most of my friends loved it despite the cheesiness, and might have commented “Be great if MST could do this”.
@74 Agree on anime intervention, and I’m extremely casual – last anime I followed was Tecnhi Universe. (though I’ve enjoyed episodes of Trigun, Naruto, and even Inuyasha).
@86 I can understand that, though Mike had a better excuse than certain sites (*cough*TheMarySue*cough*)
thanks to him not being enough of a traditional geek to know Gojira’s a classic among critics to the point
TCM runs it during it primetime, not TCM Underground (sorry for the rant, didn’t-do-the-research is a big
problem with me).
@88 At the risk of kissing your ass, Frank, right on. I’m 75% liberal, 25% conservative, but the BFF mentioned
above is the opposite and she loves and adores MST despite her political disagreements, and extends that love
to Colbert & Stewart.
That said, you might want to avoid the “hide behind a screen-name” debate – it’s uglier than Tor Johnson’s neck waddle and plenty of the moderates-to-liberals in the debate side with our counterparts. My name is Cory McCasland and I support all my statements despite how asinine and drunken, but the positives of the anonymity of the net is enough to make overlook the many negatives.
@90 Agreed. She’s older than the role she’s playing, but far from unattractive (and I do not normally go for that “Hollywood Blonde who marries an entertainment lawyer” type). Maybe it’s because I saw her first in the Porky’s 2 graveyard sequence, but I doubt it as I didn’t learn it was the same actress till several years later.
@98 Should have know you’d be unable to resist a cheap jab at Mike for more than a week. I’ll take his ill-
informed jokes over your trollery anyday. Just go away, already. [Please, Sampo, an ignore list would solve what few problems we have around here]
@99 I respectfully disagree on modern Doctor Who, but thank you for not being a jerk about it like EricJ is with MST.
@101 Please, if EricJ is who I think he is, it’s even more pathetic. I remember countless members of rec.arts.tv.mst3k.misc coming to his defense despite how insipid and insane his anti-Mike conspiracy posts were for a year, and even those supporters finally had enough and took part in an intervention. I feel sorry for them, I know what it’s like to care for a friend who ends up being a total d-bag like EricJ. Seriously, Sampo, if you need some money to upgrade the servers to the point you can block him then I will happily kick in a hundred bucks in a week or two.
@111 I understand, but consider the time. The 90’s were when that began to ping the mainstream’s radar, and compared to how some shows/movies handled it (The Craft, anyone?), it’s at the bottom of MST’s sensitivity problems. Falls under “stereotype comedy” rules, and this is coming from an ex-Wiccan and ex-LaVey Satanist (currently agnostic).
@113 Right on, Wilona! (went for that riff since I was peeved someone on another site included Good Times and Sanford & Son as “sitcoms to be embarrassed by”, when having been raised by a black stepdad who loved both I know it’s far from being so simple)
@114 Mansquatch is one thing, I can agree to disagree, or at least I can if he comes back and apologizes for making it personal (Psst, Mansquatch, doesn’t matter if Frank doesn’t do the same, it’ll give you what us moderates call “the high road”). If you’ve been around MST fandom as long as some of us have, then EricJ is the Master to our Doctor – an embarrassment from our past who could be so much more but instead wallows in his trollery/villainy.
@120 I gave Miller a chance, and liked his first few shows after going conservative – and this was in 2003, when it became alright to disagree with the government again. But all too quickly he began supporting the invasion of Iraq no matter the issues (and my issue was mainly MILITARY STRATEGY – the rightness of invading paled before the sheer incompetence of how they handled said invasion).
@123 Agreed on the alternapop, which sadly seemed to show there was a generation gap between me and with my comedy idols. Whatever, I could still watch Time Chasers and listen to Melon Collie & the Infinite Sadness!
@125 I get where you come form, but disagree. Mike seems too easy-going, and more importantly aware & sensitive of differences (look at the care he took in Movie Mega-Cheese to make it clear he’s an outsider re comic books), to be an insensitive jerk. Hell, at worst he’d be taking notes on the defenses geeks like us made so he could use them in future riffs, and that is the one area I don’t mind geeks being “betrayed” (it’s that or Big Bang Theory, pick your poison).
Mansquatch, I love your apology. I understand how hard it is, but we need more conservatives who won’t immediately go all “If you disagree with me you’re ****ing King Obama’s ****!”. I voted Obama only because Huntsman didn’t make it and Christie didn’t run.
@162 Hey, better than being a Mansonite (Marilyn Manson fan).
And in the Doctor Who debate, it’s all the same show to me. My three favorites are –
1. Sylvester McCoy (1987-1990 tv, 1987-1996 counting novels)
2. David Tennant (2006-2010)
3. Patrick Troughton (1966-1969)
So yeah, Doctor’s are subjective.
@194 Agreed, their tastes re X-Files are the opposite of my own, to be polite.
@197 Call “tongue on cheek” all you want, but that doesn’t cover your unfunny, insulting post. Please go away until you learn some basic comedy.
@199: +++++ on a lot of your points! There are way too many to re-list but I give you a hearty thumbs up :chic: If you do decide to start up that blog, I won’t hesitate to press the RSS feed button.