“BigZilla” wrote:
“I think a lot of film makers have issues with women.”
Ain’t that tha truth! In fact, horrible as it is, I think a good weekend discussion would be “most debased view of women in an MST3K film.”
Between this movie and The Creeping Terror alone you’ve got some seriously whacked views of women. Totally inappropriate but a surprisingly common theme here.
Colossus Prime added:
As amusing as that would be as a weekend discussion thread, in my mind it starts and ends with Project Moonbase. They give us an incredibly accomplished female astronaut who is surrounded by men that constantly belittle her and treat her like a housewife/secretary.
And Adoptadog added:
I think that the attitude toward women in MSTied movies would be an interesting topic, though I must say that the worst, hands down, would have to be Hobgoblins. Project Moonbase has the excuse of merely magnifying the prevalent attitude toward women at the time…Hobgoblins has no excuse.
So what are the “most debased view of women in an MST3K film”?
Without thinking too hard, there’s a moment in “Commando Cody” where they’re getting on the rocketship and Cody says to the woman: “I still say this is no trip for a woman” and she replies “You’ll be glad to have somebody along who can cook your meals!”
What’s your pick?
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I read #72 and immediately thought of Rocketship X-M. Especially the scene where the lead scientist and the female mathematician are working new formulas for the change in trajectory caused by the crew having to avoid the ejected rocket stage caused by the irresponsible command by the scientist to slow down the rocket. When the two calculators reach a point in the calculating where they disagree, the male scientist insists that they use his formulas, just because she is a female. And then he accuses her of being emotional. Not really a good attitude to have when his calculations were obviously wrong.
Mitchell. You are allowed to commit the crime of selling your body to Mitchell but you are not allowed to commit the crime of smoking weed to make the experience of having sex with Mitchell less awful. Mitchell!
@Tork_100 (#95):
Oh, I can see where you’re…HUH?
I always found Dr. John Beck’s nasty attitude towards his wife Kathy in “It Lives By Night” to be rather cringe-worthy, especially when you consider those two were married in real life.
102: Somehow I don’t think being high on weed is nearly enough to make sex with Mitchell any less awful. The very thought is just… ew.
Even worse than the boom mic and the self-repairing headlight, to me the biggest error in the movie is the fact that the filmmakers apparently want me to believe that anyone would want to have sex with Mitchell.
I just watched The Corpse Vanishes recently, because I got Shout! Factory’s Vol. XVI MST3K set.
Re: The woman reporter. I don’t remember the exact dialogue, but at the end her boss says something to the effect of, Sure, you finally give me a good scoop, and now I’m losing you. Because it was presumed she was quitting. Because she was marrying that guy. That she just met. That she had no chemistry with, or had any reason whatsoever to marry.
???!!!!!!
(Oh, and let’s not forget Bela Lugosi’s wife, who just HAD to have women victims so she could stay YOUNG. Like Bela was a friggin’ prize. :mad: )
a few thoughts because i actually read all the posts lol
1. The Home Economics Story. honestly, it’s not nearly as bad as many of the other 50’s shorts and is borderline progressive at times. women going to college to learn something and get a job…no way. My mother upon leaving high school was told she could only go to college if she was to be a nurse or a teacher (my grandfather’s words no less). I guarantee she wasn’t the only one that received such a message and this short actually gives a different option which is actually kind of nice.
2. Jack Frost. i can forgive the whole russo-finnish collection because they are basically fairy tales for children…traditional stories that date back 100 years. that movie was made in the 70’s and they weren’t dressed like that at the time, they were in bad 70’s garb like everyone else, which right away tells you something :)
3. I’m glad someone finally mentioned Mitchell…seriously Linda Evans character is easily the most confusing woman in a MST3k movie. She’s a paid hooker…ok, i get that. Mitchell has her arrested after sleeping with her, ok fits his rather gross persona, i get that. Why did she go back??? what was even remotely appealing about that guy? i didn’t even know how that last line was supposed to be funny???
4. Hobgoblins – really guys should be just as offended as women by that ridiculously stupid movie. the guys are either hopeless weenies in golf shorts, pussywhipped losers who haven’t become real men by becoming truly macho and able to take on bad guys with gardening tools. yep, the real measure of a man is his ability to handle a hoe…oooh snap! :D
Ok, so for completeness, is next weekend’s discussion going to be “most debased view of men in a MST’d movie”?
‘cos if so, I’d probably go with Mitchell and Hobgoblins for that as well, although the clearly exploitative shots of Miles O’Keefe (Cave Dwellers) and the various Steve Reeves (Hercules movies) are definitely in the running…
MITCHELL – !
Then there’s Dr Bellows threatening to spank Colonel Bright Eyes in 109 Project Moon Base. Okay she may have deserved it (considering the fact she was a spoiled brat and all), but then at the end she contributes to the promotion of the sexist pig so that the man she marries will have a higher rank than she does. Please. I don’t care that the President was revealed to be a woman at the end. The film is so utterly fifties it is not even funny…
How about that episode where the MST3K writers felt that women are so helpless against the evil forces of the mindsets of the past that every little sexist notion had to be blown out of proportion?
“Many good examples but i don’t see any mention of The Sinister Urge! The harpy madam, the woman-hating thrill-killing thug, blaming pornogrophy for all the world’s ills, the sad tale of what happens when a small-town girl moves to LA to become an actress… all make a strong case for me.”
Sorry, can’t agree with you there. The Sinister Urge makes a case that men are lunk-headed, nasty morons primed for bad behavior by their attitudes towards women, but the women themselves don’t come off that bad. They are either victims (which, let’s face it, is not an unrealistic possibility) or actually *in charge* (at least of her own operation). Any film that has the woman gun down her kept man/lackey because he got too full of himself can’t be faulted for undervaluing women.
This topic is actually THREE issues:
1. Objectification of women.
2. Sexist attitudes toward women.
3. Stereotypes pertaining to women in danger.
In category one, I’d put Angels’ Revenge and Horrors of Spider Island as the two worst examples, with The Sinister Urge a very close third.
In category two, I’d vote for Design for Dreaming, The Home Economics Story and Giant Spider Invasion.
The last category is a doozy. Any movie in which women faint when confronted by danger (most of them, except oddly enough Angels’ Revenge) belongs in this category.
Randy
For the few here who said “it was just how life was in the ’50s,” WTF? So we shouldn’t find it distasteful and wrong? If anything, it was propaganda of the worst form. Those god-awful shorts and movies simply presented an idealized version of what the misogynistic producers and directors WISHED were going on.
Robot Monster: “You’re so bossy you have to be milked”.
The fact that she is wearing a tight sleveless top and jutting out at him as he says this serves to underscore the figure of speech….
Do we have political correctness seeping in to spoil the fun? “PC” was a term coined by Chairman Mao I believe, not known for his sense of humor… don’t get feminist on us or we’ll have to sic Mitchell on y’all.
I’m a little late to the discussion, but I wanted to mention “Operation Double 007” as one of the most-degrading-to-women films MST3K ever did. You have Adolfo Celi who uses women as his tv screens, plus the amazing scene of a woman following behind a man CRAWLING ON THE FLOOR. And then you have Neil Connery who hypnotizes the women to do whatever he wants. It’s a creepy slimey mess.
>116
There are several instances, at least during the Joel era, of the term “white male reality” being used. As politically incorrect as MST3K could be at times, it perhaps paradoxically interjected politically correct humor when faced with the opposite by the movie being riffed on.
I know I’m too late for anyone to read this, but I’m shocked no-one mentioned “I Was a Teenage Werewolf”. The fact that Michael Landon’s girlfriend constantly clings to him in spite of his near-constant verbal abuse and literally-violent mood-swings always struck me as the epitome of the powerless, submissive woman.
That being said, the slug-monster feeding on women as their bare legs flail from its suspicious-looking orifice always makes me cringe at “The Creeping Terror”; something in those scenes strikes me as being part of some bizarre sexual fantasy on the director’s part.
I realize it’s Film Crew and not MST, but Wild Women of Wongo certainly has it’s share of ickiness going on.
Good afternoon,
Season One: “Women of the Prehistoric Planet”- Female protagonist slaps Tang for undressing her and seeing her naked, then he floors her with a return slap, then says “Tang did not mean to hurt Linda”, then they kiss and make up’; wow, talk about your co-dependent domestic violence relationship.
Season Two: I have to agree with those who have mentioned “Sidehackers”- J.C.’s attitude and physical abuse is especially depraved.
Season Three: “Pod People”- the lead “singer’s” friend explaining away his indiscretions as part of the “singer’s” image, and she should accept it and fight to get him back; talk about reverse enabling!
Season Four: Yep, “Manos” takes the cake here in so many ways I am not even going to get started.
Season Five: I have to declare a toss-up between “The Brain that Wouldn’t Die” and “The Wild, Wild World of Batwoman”, for all the reasons mentioned by folks so far, but in particular the henchman leading the batgirl around with a rope tied around her neck.
Season Six: “Skydivers”- Beth has the whole Tammy Wynette “Stand by Your Man” thing going on, and that is just way too stereotypically submissive for my way of thinking.
Season Seven: The only thing I have seen in less than ten or more years is “Laserblast”, so don’t have anything to compare, so if someone else wants to throw in here…
Season Eight: Of course I agree with everyone who has mentioned “Giant Spider Invasion” and “The Incredibly Strange” etc., but let us not forget our middle-aged (but apparently still hot to the young ladies) “Agent for H.A.R.M.”- he is so incredibly patronizing and condescending to women who would not have anything to do with him in real life, I have to crack up whenever he is being “sexy”.
Season Nine: “Werewolf”, with another wholly despicable male as far as his treatment of women, the new hairstyle every hour Yuri!
Season Ten: Have to go with “Girl in Gold Boots”, which has a deep seated feeling (to me) that women are here for men to use and abuse.
Hope you all don’t mind too much my going on like this, but it was a great discussion topic. Thanks for reading.
For me it’s got to be “The Wives” in Manos.
1) Yes, they are undead or something, but still they are represented as jealous nags and basically slaves to The Master.
2) The Wives’ endless night gown wrestling really didn’t further what little there was of a plot (but must have been exciting for the director to film).
3) I don’t think I need to mention the final development regarding the little girl.
Just ridiculous, luckily the film is so poorly executed your brain doesn’t allow for any deep thinking to occur.
“1. Objectification of women.
with The Sinister Urge a very close third.”
Nope, I still don’t buy it. The Sinister Urge *portays* the objectification of women, but doesn’t particularly objectify them itself.
The Home Economics Story ranks right up there, for sure.
I love the riffs on that one but the scene where the father is all condescending to the daughter and says “He really earned her diploma” makes me cringe every time I see it.
Once Upon a Honeymoon assumes that all women want is a nice house and kitchen, etc. T
Oh, hell. There are just too many to list here!
121 – Stoneman, for Season 7, I think perhaps Night of the Blood Beast or the Brute Man might fit this discussion. For Blood Beast, the women don’t really do anything except look pretty and get endangered. As for Brute Man, he falls in love with a blind girl, but later decides she’ll have to die anyway, but he’s killed before he can do it. She may be considered a positive portrayal, though.
I have got to mention “Manhunt In Space” and “Crash Of The Moons” for the horrible way Cleolanta is treated. She is supposed to be the ruler of an entire planet and she is ignored, countermanded, and just plain treated as an object– literally picking her up and carting her away. No wonder she’s always fuming.
Whenever the better half & I watch this episode, we’re always cheering for Cleolanta!
How about MST3K itself…
women were rarely allowed to enter the theatre and riff. Gypsy (who was played by a man) for a brief time and Pearl for one segment during Quest of the Delta Knights.
Shut up Iris.
#121 Stoneman – I have to disagree on Werewolf and the magical hair changing Yuri because he was basically a complete jerk to everyone. The only person i ever noted him being nice to was the security guard and that’s because he wanted to ply him with champagne mixed with wyrwulf bone powder :)
As for the MST3k people themselves…i have to disagree on that too because Mary Jo and Brigid were part of the writing team. It’s not like they had a problem with the set up or I kind of think they would have said something about it ;)
Actually, ‘Design For Dreaming’ and ‘Once Upon A Honeymoon’ were sexist in another way as well: Those shorts were made by men for women, to entice them to buy their products.
And ‘Boggy Creek II’ is one that hasn’t been mentioned enough. The camera blatantly leers at the two girls’ asses, one girl is mocked for complaining about the grungy expedition, and both are shown as useless, whining idiots.
The four that instantly spring to mind, are:
“The Horror’s of Spider Island”: Simpering fawning females who seem to fall all over the biggest creep to ever walk the planet. He bosses them around and they never seem to object. They simply trip, simper and act horny and helpless. YUCK!
“The Horror of Party Beach”: Do, I even need to explain? Not only do we have that the makers of this film, obviously had issues with women, thus all the violence toward them. But, we also have “Eulobelle” who’s the black maid. She’s treated like a slave from the Old South. :roll: AWFUL FILM!
“The Sinister Urge”: Exploitation at it’s worst!
and
“Manos: Hands of Fate”: Fighting in their underwear, being molested and treated like slaves. Terrible film.
It so funny when a girl tries to do something.
“Riding with Death.” After Abby spent most of the first episode … er, first half of the movie … saving Sam’s flabby ass, 1) the idiot doesn’t bother to thank her, and 2) can only say “now please, stay out of trouble.” Condescending, isn’t it? :roll:
Hobgoblins is offensive to everyone, even one celled organisms are insulted by that one. Most of the movies shown have offensive or at least hilarious views of women, seen from our perspective. Also views of minorities, anyone not an American, etc. They annoy me, not just because they reflected the views of the times, but they reinforced them.
Geez where to pick from.
Well between the ‘harem fodder airheads can’t do anything without men’ bimbos in ‘Catalina Caper’
AND
The subjected to wearing nighties and being shoved onto men against their will by their own “Father ” in ‘Fire Maidens from Outer space’
I gotta go with ‘Fire Maidens from Outer Space.’ Like their dancing and nighties their dad forced them to wear had anything to dowith their rituals.
Whew…that is some thread…fascinating read. A pox upon all our houses: men, women, society, history, bad-movie-makers, et al.
Now everyone sing along!
“…then repeat to yourself ‘it’s just a show’ I should really just relax, for Mystery Science Theater 3000…”