What references or assessments made in the show or ACEG do you disagree with? I mean, not everyone hates high energy prop comic Carrot Top or there wouldn’t be anyone going to his shows, right? Maybe there are MSTies that love Gallagher, Carrot Top or Jim Carrey. My personal disagreements with the writers are minor in nature. I may stand alone on this (like Tom and his affection for “Blanksy’s Beauties”) but Jim Varney was not as terrible as they implied. Of course the Ernest character was idiotic but he took it and made a very funny Saturday morning show back in the late ‘80s. It was on the air at about the same time as “Pee Wee’s Playhouse.” It only lasted one season and was silly at times, but also sly and satirical (sound like any other show you know of? Hmmmm?). My other dispute, even more minor, is that in ACEG Michelle from “Girl in Gold Boots” is referred to (I think by Paul Chaplin) as “zaftig’. Whenever I watch that episode, I think to myself ”I should be so zaftig”
I have one I mentioned in the episode guide: I’m a huge Counting Crows fan and, while Adam’s “wounded soldier of love” schtick can wear a little thin after a while, in general I don’t find it, or the band, repellant. The bit was still funny, though.
Is there any riff or observation where you disagree?
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Has it been proven that it was Michael J. Nelson who wrote the 3 or 4 Anime jokes during the show’s run? I’m not going to begrudge anyone for not being a hardcore anime fan.
You’re like a broken record EricJ. Just revel in your Nerd-osity and stop worrying about getting picked on/being made fun of for being a nerd. I saw you grinding your Mike Nelson Hate Axe at some random Blu-ray discussion forum, not exactly the best ambassador for MST3k fandom.
I haven’t read the other comments yet but in the Giant Gila Monster Crow comments that one of the actors is “like a puppet by Sid and Marty Kroft, he hardly moves”. I know that Land of the Lost looks ridiculously hokey nowadays but for a early 1970s Saturday morning TV show the special effects were incredible. I loved that show when I was 9 years old. My 6 year old has no idea how good he has it with modern CGI shows like Dino Dan.
Enough with the snarky political crap. I have always been mystified by the dislike for Emerson,
Lake and Palmer. There is a video of the Brains building the SOL set, and they are listening to
George Benson(shudder!). No wonder ELP put them off.
Reading some of these comments brings to mind the riff from Riding With Death about how Ben Murphy’s buzz is harshed. Lighten up friends!
When I first saw the topic for this weekend I thought “uh oh”. Sure enough I came back this morning and things have gotten nasty. Now I feel all frowny; maybe negative threads aren’t the way to go?
@ #22: Judging from his Deathstalker entry in the online ACEG, it appears that Kevin may be the primary source of the anti-RenFest riffs. I seem to recall hearing once that he used to be a RenFest geek but presumably became ashamed of it. If so, he appears to have gotten over it, as the Jack the Giant Killer Live Show (an obvious target) didn’t have any RenFest riffs. Well, there might have been one, but if it was, it was pretty subtle (I’ll leave to you to figure out which one).
Yeah, I disagree with their disdain for Progressive Rock (although the Rick Wakeman bit was great) and the Crow-as-Jerry Garcia guitar solo bit was funny, but as a long-time Deadhead and big fan of all complex and improvised music, all I can say is, “The right people will get it”! :musicnote:
#6 Steve K.
You’re absolutely right. A brain freeze. Of course,
I meant Time Chasers. I’m much more charitably inclined towards
that movie then the apparent Galactica ripoff Space Mutiny,
although you have to admire the affirmative action of SM in
featuring a presumed zombie (Lt. Lamont) being permitted to keep her
job after being whacked.
One that I disagree with especially is Mike’s dripping contempt for
This Island Earth, including his snarky, “If you still like it you
must be remembering it as a 5-year-old.” Perhaps he was effected by
their poor experience with making a movie under the funding of a studio.
The actual, complete and unriffed movie, has some good production qualities (for the time)
and elements of an adult approach to the genre. Of course it doesn’t reach
Forbidden Planet levels but, when not cut up as they had to do, generally
works. It even has some some pop philsophy and racial harmony opining by Exeter.
(He was an alien, you know :) ).
#68 About
“as a francophile I always felt a sting when they mocked the French, but it WAS funny so…. And didn’t someone once say, within the show, “The fat jokes hurt, but they’re funny !” ”
it brings to mind a philosophy of comics/humor, exemplified in the movie My Favorite Year.
============================================================================================
(Found this in an entry in The Big Apple)
“You never cut funny” (scriptwriting adage)
The movie My Favorite Year (1982) was based on the Sid Caesar variety television show Your Show of Shows (1950-1954)—a live television comedy legacy in New York City continued with Saturday Night Live. The movie character King Kaiser said:
“We’re gonna keep doing this sketch. Y’know why? Because it’s funny. And in my business, you never cut funny.”
The adage “you never/don’t cut funny” is used in playwriting, television scriptwriting and movie scriptwriting. If there are jokes that make people laugh, the jokes should never be removed from a script; if there are weak points, the script should be tightened around the jokes. The idea behind the saying is much older than the 1982 movie (writer Erica Jong seems to have used it since at least 1973), but the movie formalized the “you never cut funny” adage.
The only references I ever have any problem with are references to witchcraft/magic as tools of Satan with no apparent knowledge of the practices or feelings of modern paganism. Even then I’m not extremely annoyed unless they really hammer it into the riffs.
I must disagree with those who say that political humor has to be partisan to be good. Yes Minister and its companion Yes Prime Minister are, if not the best political comedies of all time, then certainly in the Top Ten, yet are bipartisan in tone (the co-writers being from opposite ends of the political spectrum).
Looks like some folks are getting a little upset…good. This shows that they had few sacred cows and that everyone and anything can be poked fun of. Just because it stings a little doesn’t mean it’s malicious. It usually means it’s true, or some twisted reflection of the truth (like a fun-house mirror).
Something else to keep in mind. Are you looking at these observations with your 2013 view of the world. Or are these the feelings you had when you first saw them in the 1990s? Thats a long time and things have changed including our personal views.
As for me when a joke seems a little painful I just remember the words to a song we all know and love…
“Just repeat to yourself “It’s just a show,
I should really just relax”
Oh yeah…Happy New Year to Misties everywhere!
I disagree with The Brains on 99% everything, even the things we’ve been caught multiple times agreeing about, but I will defend to the death of my computer’s battery anyone’s right to talk like Eric J. or Mansquatch.
Sorry, but Frank will take offense to my post as well
The political jokes from a partisan viewpoint are lazy and tired and why I also stay away from CT.
Political jokes from the far left liberal view are hateful and spiteful while they say the other side are hateful and spiteful and jokes from the far right fascist side are well…not funny. I think the late GREAT comedian Richard Jeni said it best “If you are on the far left or far right…you’ve gone too far, because that is where you find the extremist wackos.”
I especially love his take that the far left talk about freedom of expression and the 1st amendment unless you say something that pisses them off, then they try to smear your character (we have seen that in this thread) and tie your butt to a Toyota hybrid and drag you to the Berkeley campus.
I mean G.W. Bush was horrible, but Obama called for drone attacks a day after his election that killed innocent people and children. All political humor does is fool the naive and causes divisiveness that both parties use to their advantage.
Oh and as for Rifftrax
I think they need to hire some older writers as the young guys they have do have some funny lines, but you can tell it’s not Mike Kevin or Bill writing the more juvenile jokes
Sigh.
It’s a beautiful Sunday morning here. I don’t want this to get all political. But there’s a number of comments about the political slant of the riffing.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2012/10/15/americas-best-and-worst-educated-states/ [PLEASE NOTE THE SOURCE]
See any red state/blue state tilt in those results?
This was a show from an outfit that called itself “Best Brains,” out of Minnesota, ultimately pitched to an audience of better-educated wiseasses. When they did political snarking, what the Sam Scratch would you expect?
(Yeah, I’m fully aware that Mike is reputedly no kind of lib.)
If you want thoughtful consideration of reforms to management of controlled substances in our society, conducted in Hegelian dialectic, don’t tune in to Sifl and Olly, I’m just sayin’.
Was MST pitched to the most successful individuals in America?
And please note my source was Fox News.
Let’s all think about a nice dinner.
Hey Mansquatch – get lost. Jeez, insulting TV’s wisecracking Frank – FRANK! on a MST3K fan site? Get bent, seriously.
Back to the topic – I like KISS!
and I know Mike detests Star Wars and comic books. (Some) Comics are a lot more sophisticated than he thinks. But that’s okay.
Oh, and I like (the old) Dr. Who too.
Undoubtedly, this is one of the best weekend discussion boards to date!!
While I understand the theme of “Disagreeing with the Brains,” on certain material, this might be slightly off-topic (or for another weekend discussion) but could there be a discussion of ‘Disagreeing with the Misties,’ as seen in this as well as past boards??
I mention this as so far I can recall it seems a pair of professionals that draws the collective ire of Misties is that of both Dennis Miller and Seth McFarlane.
The Dennis Miller complaints seem to peek about every September in the historical section when his HBO show won the Emmy over “MST3K,” as well as Letterman back in 1994.
The Seth McFarlane complaints seemed to peek after an episode of “The Cleveland Show,” set at a comic-con when one of the characters was wearing a jumpsuit like Joel or Mike, plus an image of Tom Servo could be seen in the background.
About 20 years ago, Dennis Miller could’ve been considered on the best political and social comics on the scene (like John Stewart and Stephen Colbert, today), especially with his use of obscure references. I believe some Misties may have started to dislike him after he started leaning to the Right about 10 years ago.
Seth McFarlane tends to use obscure references as well, especially on “Family Guy.” In the past, I’ve read where some of the crude humor used doesn’t seem to appeal to Misties.
Also, what is the general consensus on views of Misties of other works of comedy (some could be used in riffs) of the likes of Matt Groening (“The Simpsons, “Futurama,”) Trey Parker and Matt Stone (“South Park,”) Mike Judge (“Beavis and Butthead,”) just to name a few??
As far as the Brains are concerned, I can’t seem to be offended by their material, as it is great!!
Consensus?
“You never cut funny.” I’ll take ‘funny,’ wherever it shows up, and I’ll bet most here will too.
I mean, I want to watch reruns of the commercial where Dad’s diet is being overseen by the popular girls from middle school.
Okay, a couple of completely off-topic posts, and a couple of posts that veered into partisanship were removed. The topic of politics in general, without avoiding partisan/idealogical back and forth, is certainly on-topic for this thread and I want to note that Frank (who is always welcome to post here) remained on-topic the entire time, and I want to thank him for that.
There was a little more personal attacks than I like to see in a comment thread, but everybody gave as good as they got, so I’ll leave it alone.
PLEASE stay on-topic and non-partisan/non-idealogical.
Gee, Sampo – if you ever had a thread where partisanism was relevant, this was it. That said, I was starting to feel like Michael Ontkean at the end of Slap Shot; the only logical move amongst the carnage is to go into complete Lili St. Cyr mode. In that vein, I was envisioning a new, Crossfire-type debate show, starring Ann Coulter and Rachael Maddow, in some real mudslinging action. Using real mud. Best of seven falls, no holds barred. Would anyone else watch that? (I suppose we could substitute John Sinunu and James Carville, if that’s more your taste).
Anyway, to the topic at hand, I agree with several previous posters that the Brains’ collective taste in music seems to really dump on seventies prog and nineties alternapop. It seems to be a function of their age: prog represents an adolescence that they’re dismissive of; the (then) newer stuff is treated as being unworthy of it’s popularity – kinda the same way I imagine most of us regard Justin Bieber or Carly Rae Jeppeson today. I just don’t recall to many shots taken against Cyndi Lauper, Annie Lennox, or Huey Lewis…
Oh, and I also never understood why they didn’t make more Muppet themed jokes in Final Sacrifice. That old guy totally sounds like Jim Henson.
Still catching up on the thread. Let me be Frank about frankly saying that I would love to hear Frank’s voice in a dare I say, Frank Conniff infused Rifftrax and sincerely hope his affection for Mr. Carrey isn’t what has prevented that. And possibly Titanic.
And I always got the impression Mike wouldn’t be fun to discuss entertainment with. He seems to have an incredibly condescending and contemptful attitude against everything that doesn’t fit his tastes. But based on interviews I’ve read, he has a deep love for P.G. Wodehouse and thinks the Andy Griffith Show is the greatest show ever made, so I’ll cut him some slack.
Speaking of Rifftrax, per one of the comments above regarding “immature/lowbrow” jokes, is it really true a lot of the Riffs aren’t written by Mike, Kevin and Bill?
#48
I thought the intended appeal of a lot of those early Season 8 episodes was the fact that even though the movies were prime riffing fodder of high cheese, they were some fairly enjoyable “classics” of the Universal drive-in library. I know that behind-the-scenes their use was probably motivated by the convenience of SciFi already having the rights, but I feel like I remember it being used almost as a hook in the advertising. I’m paraphrasing but Mike’s line in a promo for the season’s premiere was something like “Mystery Science Theater combined with the SciFi Channel’s library – what could be better?”
Actually, this sort of leads to a worthy discussion all of its own. For how many viewers does MST3K represent two levels of entertainment: the comedy of the lampoonery and the enjoyment we get out of the movie itself (however ironically we must insist we do so)? It’s gotta be the great majority. I mean you have to figure that a love for low-budget fare was a gateway to MST3K for a lot of people (and vice-versa!), and without doubt it represented some unknown percentage of my reasons for watching. I certainly have a hard time believing that the earliest fans of the show would have been able to stomach Season 1 without finding value in watching a campy movie on its own terms.
Frankly, there’s a hell of a lot of overlap between people who would watch I Was a Teenage Werewolf mocked and who would also simply watch it if it was on TV unriffed one rainy Saturday. That’s why I’ve always been floored by the occasional accusation that MST3K was some sort of heresy against B-movies. You could easily argue that the show is as much a celebration of this category of cinema as it is a savaging of it, and even if you subscribe to the absurd belief that the approach is purely mean-spirited and never affectionate, there’s no denying that MST3K made fans for some of these forgotten movies as a side effect of selecting them for ridicule – fans that they would not have ever attracted without the exposure. You can be darn sure that many (most?) of us who have some genuine affection for the likes of Devil Doll, Time Chasers, The Clonus Horror, Soultaker and Squirm would not have even had the opportunity to meet these movies without the chaperons of the silhouettes.
@99 – There was a time when Dr. Who really was just a cheap BBC show that was shot on atrocious videotape. How could anyone NOT make fun of it. Conversely, the new Dr. Who is so damned popular that ot’s even annoying. I must be the only nerd who doesn’t care for it at all.
Well, the nerd appeal was that (ahem-ahem) anyone could look at the atrociously videotaped BBC old-series during mid-channel click on some backwater PBS station and see “Haw, haw, look at them running around hallways in gold lame’ and blinking penlights at each other!”–But for those inscrutably hooked core-fans, there was smarter writing, quirky characters, and more intelligent storylines than the gay/flashy New series delivered, but done as a sort of filmed stage play. (Plus the influence of having Douglas Adams as story editor during the Tom Baker season, which made it seem more like the cheap 70’s BBC version of Hitchhiker’s Guide.)
Kevin, however, who tends to assume All Geeky Fans are part of the Great Ren-Fair Conspiracy, chooses to bash first and ask questions later. But again, fans back then said, “Go ahead, TRY and make fun of us; whatsamatter, can’t think of any jokes? :) ”
@125 – And I always got the impression Mike wouldn’t be fun to discuss entertainment with. He seems to have an incredibly condescending and contemptful attitude against everything that doesn’t fit his tastes. But based on interviews I’ve read, he has a deep love for P.G. Wodehouse and thinks the Andy Griffith Show is the greatest show ever made, so I’ll cut him some slack.
He did have a pop column on Cracked.com a while back, don’t know whatever happened with that: Remember he did exactly two self-authoritarian columns, “Snob cult films” and “Unfunny comedies”, where he correctly managed to stick a pin in the pretentious love for “Rushmore” and “Being John Malkovich”, but after a few paragraphs, the rest of it pretty much sank into the same personal anger-management “The overexposed square bugs me, man, it really BUGS me!”
@126:
A watchable movie definitely help me enjoy episodes of MST3K. A dull movie is often can’t be helped, even with the riffing. For example, while I have warmed up to it and enjoy the riffing and host segments, I still don’t like The Beast of Yucca Flats episode. The movie is just so bad and dreary. The same goes for The Creeping Terror.
MikeK, The Creeping Terror isn’t so bad and dreary – there’s some high quality rump shaking in there!
Captain Cab (#87) – They way he says “damn migrant workers!” so angrily does fit with the general tone of Dr. Vance’s testiness in the film.
@120 I love the simpsons though I don’t follow it anymore (I continue to revel in the perfection of MST3k’s length and the great note it ended on). Be it Simpsons or Magic: The Gathering, I grew up loving them but I wish they’d just end dammit! I adore Futurama as one of the most well-written animated comedies of genuine emotional content. Was a huge fan of South Park as well though I no longer follow it as well. I enjoyed Beavis and Butthead, though only marginally (Maxx and Sifl and Olly were my fave MTV shows back then). I don’t watch much TV these days, but Adult Swim is pretty much on every night at least in the background.
@126 I wouldn’t say I ENJOY the bad movies in MST, but I do consider myself a film lover and I often appreciate either the place in history (someone mentioned Teenage Werewolf…that’s a good example) or just how their badness reflects on their era in cinema. So yeah, I definitely want to watch the movie too because it makes the riffing more enjoyable. I love when they pseudo-analyze a film to a really spergy way like when Tom does his bit about the “Dock” shot in Killer Shrews and such.
—
I’ve only met the CT crew in person, but the Rifftrax guys definitely seem far more acrimonious just going off of things I’ve read and the way they socialize online (maybe not Kev, but Mike and Bill). I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. I’m pretty mean myself sometimes. Just an observation. Maybe in person they’re just as lovely as my minor interactions with the CT folks. I really don’t give a damn overall. I don’t need to love the people who make the things I love
@EricJ Never read (or knew of) his Cracked columns but that sounds about right.
Frank! Totally awesome. And I love Titanic as well. The Jack character, who is an adventurer at heart, was right on the money for me. Call me a Twain fan too. See how I made that sound kind of cool? :p try that on those turkeys!
@65 & 78 “And if Frank’s going to confess to “Titanic”, I’ll add a confession of my own: I really enjoy beach party movies. Eric Von Zipper will return! ” I highly recommend a very cheap DVD set call “too Cool For School” with 12 cheesy teen movies from 70s and 80s. They are a hoot! Just watched one today call Malibu Beach from 1978. Goofy, lots of skin, bad music, bad MOVIES, but fun! Seems to be mostly Crown International Films. MST3K could have lots of fun with those. Not quite up to par with those old 60s ones, but for that price they are worth it.
@66 Excellent post about the times of your life dictating what you like. I’ve been trying to get people on rottentomatoes.com to understand that! (joking..)
@72. California lady comment. I love what they did with that… “California GRAAAAVY..adds flavor to my meat!” lol but I could understand actually liking the song. It’s actually pretty good for a no name band. I wouldn’t get up and leave if I was there and someone played it.
@ 79 Low blows comment. I agree somewhat. visible boom mics is one low blow. If the film was in widescreen as was the original intension on many, there would be no boom mic visible. Luckily, they didn’t always comment on that. PARTS is one episode that has a boom mic plainly visible and the guys pass on it.
(just a note to myself: start at @84 next time…)
Keep up the great work Frank :-) Awesome to know you read these.
Hey Mitchell Rowsdower Beardsley,
If you read the posts, I didn’t insult Frank, but Frank insulted me fairly viciously several times. He’s actually kind of a jerk.
So you get bent – seriously.
I think Ryoki @ #113 has a good point. In the 90s when MST3K was originally airing, I was a young lady who didn’t spend much time dwelling on stuff like tolerance and courtesy. It’s different in 2013 for me. And by now I have seen episodes of my fave show many, many times and hearing a quip I don’t like many, many times is quite a different thing from hearing it for the first time!
I admit that I dig The Del-Aires from The Horror Of Party Beach. Of course, I understand that making fun of them was pretty much mandatory, but they weren’t too bad, IMO (Paul Chaplin says pretty much the same thing in the Sci-Fi Episode Guide entry). Like someone said above, I’d love to find some 45s by them.
LEAVE ROBERT DENBY ALONE! Can we just talk about the show and not developing grudges or worrying that somebody doesn’t root for the same team or political party.
the Grateful Dead are wonderful.
period.
and the host segment during the Dead Talk Back was so, so funny. one of my favorites. i really don’t think they were bashing the Dead, just noting the fact that some of their songs seem to go on forever. which is quite true of their live material.
For those who sit with a little scoresheet while watching MST3K and its offshoots, categorizing each political joke, let me paraphrase John Irving:
You should either stop trying to enjoy MST3K, or you should try a lot harder.
Hey everyone, I want to apologize for my behavior here.
I have truly come to love how peaceful these forums are and what nice, gentle people msties are.
I let Frank’s comments get under my skin last night and I polluted a place I come to to get away from that kind of crap.
Sorry.
Maybe some of the comments were deleted, but from what i see here mansquatch and GregS wrote reasoned and even-handed descriptions that i appreciated. I don’t like the way political talk here tends to go south but it seems that that is not always the fault of the fans.
As someone so eloquently (and ironically) put it just above, ” In the age of empty snark that we live in, sometimes the bravest thing a person can do is admit they like something that all the “cool” kids disdain. ” I would like to think that can even mean political disagreements.
Hey Wolf,
Thanks.
It was actually my first Don Mclean moment in a while and definitely broke up the monotony.
BTW, Frank was implying the mansquatch thing is a statement of my virility or manliness.
It’s not. It’s a nickname a loved one who passed away gave me, and I’ve used it as a screen name so that when I see it, I have an opportunity to remember them.
Just wanted to clarify that.
Isn’t there a famous saying around these MST3K parts that (roughly) goes as such?… “Not everyone will get it, but the right people will get it.” I think the problem with the entire “political humor” debate that’s been going on here is that people like “mansquatch” and “GregS” are acting like just because they like other things about MST3K that they are entitled to always be “the right people” (no pun intended), to always be able to enjoy the comedy being created by the creative minds like Frank and the other Brains without ever being offended by a joke, and speaking as if those comedians should be compromising themselves and conforming their senses of humor and comedy writing to what the mansquatch’s of the world want it to be instead of being true to themselves. If you really do want your comedy to be homogenized and sterilized for your own protection I think there is probably a “sitcom” or two on the Disney Channel you might enjoy.
And mansquatch you very much did insult Frank whether you even realized it or not. Your ridiculous and ignorant comments about how political comedy was “easy” and “lazy” was the same as calling him and many of the wonderful people that he works with and/or admires “lazy”, and what they all do “easy”. So why act so surprised that he was a little less than kind to you in his replies? I think he was actually pretty classy, making you look like a fool in a humorous way rather than just telling you to shove it.
Also about the “zaftig” thing I always took that phrase to mean curvy or voluptuous in a good/attractive way, not fat or chubby. In that case I think Michele from The Girl in Gold Boots was exquisitely zaftig! Hominahominahomina.
I disagree. Michelle was neither fat enough to be called “zaftig” nor was she skinny enough to be called the same ironically.
OK cronkite, I tried to reason with Frank, and explain what I was trying to say and he ignored me and threw sophomoric insulting replies at me. I stated an observation I’ve made from over 35 years of being a fan of comedy. Johnny Carson was able to poke at politicians and do it in a way that was never mean spirited. I think, and will always think that rants that are vicious and personal are not innovative or creative, but the work of lazy writers. Just like someone who cusses to cover the lack of a good joke is lazy too.
Frank makes a living ripping actors, directors and politicians to shreds, people that work just as hard as he does, so I’m still perplexed as to what he was so angry about.
And if “I know you are, but what am I” retorts are classy and made me look like a fool, so be it. Being out-gunned by someone who has written comedy for 20 plus years isn’t something I’m ashamed of, and quite frankly, I was surprised at how juvenile he was.
If Frank viewed my comment as an insult to him personally, I’m sorry. That’s his interpretation of what I wrote.
I guess my interpretation of his responses were actually 180 degrees the opposite of classy, they were over-the-top and childish.
Yeah, the fun in this thread is pretty much wrecked already, so I’ll just toss in and say I was also pretty shocked at how vicious Frank’s response was. “And one other thing, when we express our opinions we use our real names, we don’t hide like cowards behind avatars and phony screen names. I would try to explain how ironic it is that you use “Man” in your fake name, but I doubt that you understand what irony is.”
As a fellow “coward” “hiding” behind an avatar and phony screen name (um, hang around discussion boards much?), I did not find his responses classy. In fact, I think “over-the-top and childish” was just about right.
Yours sincerely,
Gern Blanston
#99 I don’t get the “atrocious videotape” thing. Most BBC shows of the era were shot the same way, regardless of budget, even Monty Python. The classic series episodes have been lovingly restored, and often look better than originally broadcast too.
I never found Johnny Carson’s political humor funny. However, were he still with us, I wouldn’t go to a forum for fans of his show in which he had just posted, call him lazy, and tell him what was wrong with his comedy. I simply wouldn’t watch his show.
I personally disagreed with how easy they always took it on Packer fans.