Alert reader David, playing off Sampo’s Theorem, writes:
Came up with this while reading the recent 904 – Werewolf postings. Most people rated it a 5 in their posts, but a select few rated it as low as a 3, admitting that they “like it but just don’t get all the love for it.” I think we all have that feeling about some episode that everyone else seems to adore.
My response: “OK, if you don’t think THIS is a 5 star episode, then what is?”
Question: What’s an episode you consider overrated, and maybe suggest a neglected favorite that you prefer.
For overrated, I’m going to go with 303- POD PEOPLE. People just swoon over this episode. It puts me to sleep. (Great segments, though.)
For underrated, I have to go with 610- THE VIOLENT YEARS, an all-time fave that I don’t think gets the love it should.
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Overrated:
Godzilla v. Megalon
Gamera
Pod People
Santa Claus Conquers the Martians
The Day The Earth Froze
Laserblast
Prince of Space
Werewolf
Underrated:
Phase IV
SST: Death Flight
Hangar 18
Moon Zero Two
Untamed Youth
Stranded in Space
The Beatniks
Outlaw
Girls Town
The Starfighters
Danger!! Death Ray <—- !!!!
The Brute Man
Horror of Party Beach
Girl in Gold Boots
I’d consider the Gamera and Fugitive Aliens series over-rated. Just couldn’t get into those episodes no matter how hard I tried. Santa Claus vs the Martians, The Final Sacrifice, Time Chasers, Sidehackers and Kitten with a Whip also fall into that category.
The Sinister Urge, Starfighters, Racket Girls, Danger! Death Ray! and Leech Woman fall into the under-rated category for me.
Well, I just think unintentionally funny movies are preferable to unintentionally unfunny movies. Catalina Caper is like ordering a sundae and then finding the whipped cream is actually shaving cream and the chocolate syrup is motor oil. The ice cream ain’t gonna save it.
Overrated: Diabolik. Other than the host segments and the bittersweet ending, this movie just lays there for me. It’s not that interesting, and the riffs are flat. A better final episode would’ve been “Merlin’s Shop of Mystical Wonders”.
Underrated: The Screaming Skull. A great short and some classic riffs: “Trick or treat for calcium!”
I think Hamlet is a boring episode and so is The Rebel Set. snooze-ville.
I think Puma Man is underrated simply because I rarely see anyone writing/talking about it. And the Sci-Fi episodes are by far my favorite.
I skipped all posts to keep from outside influences…I LOVE Attack of the Eye Creatures…I hope it makes a SF DVD set. Did I mention this was aired during my Marley years.
I like Cave Dwellers, but the fanaticism for this episode baffles me; but, I miss New Coke too. Don’t try to figure it out…I’m a puzzle.
Overrated: “The Touch of Satan.” The second half drags the whole thing down way too much.
Underrated: I never see “The Human Duplicators” mentioned in the same breath as the show’s best episode, but I think that it’s excellent. The same goes for “The Leech Woman.”
Best episodes, I mean.
I’d also choose Hamlet as most underrated. No doubt the reason
many don’t like it is the shocking disrespect shown for the small
but crucial role of Fortinbras, Prince of Norway, by excising his
role from the shown movie. :shock: As the antithesis of Mad Max’s
portrayal of Hamlet he was important (at least it is for anyone who
had to write a report/review of the play for highschool!!!)
…but, I digress.
And when the character does appear to protest his exclusion at the
movie’s end, which classically trained Shakesperean actor does he
remind you of? Hmm? Olivier? Gielgud? Tom Servo?
Oh, and most overrated, absolutely Diabolik! A
depressing, mean-spirited movie with no redeeming
characteristics that I recall, especially since I
have managed to not rewatch it for some time.
As i recall, he smug amorality of the “hero” is especially icky.
Overrated: MANOS. Sure, Torgo is funny, but that’s about it. Also, I think the riffing is weak and off-topic for something that deserves more thrashing. Too much lady wrestling and a lot of tedium at the end.
Underrated: MERLIN’S SHOP OF MYSTICAL WONDERS: This one’s full of bad eighties style, awful acting, horrendous special effects, cheap footage recycling, terrible dialogue and overall pretentiousness. It’s the Garth Marenghi’s Darkplace of MST movies, and I love it all the more for it.
Don’t mean to start a feud, but, looking for redeeming qualities in a riffed MST3K episode is just like looking for nutrition in a bag of Cheetos…think about it, won’t you?
UNDERATED: The Magic Sword- jole says it best “ya know, this is pretty good for Bert I. Gorden” yeah it’s a really bad movie, the curses arent clearly marked, and the george carlen refrences pile up at the end. but theres plenty strong riffs. Crow’s ode to Estell is one of the funniest songs in mst3k history.
OVERATED: robot vs. the azteck mummy-very dull
Overrated:
SPACE MUTINY. The a-one overrated MST3K episode of all time. I’m not sure if people like this episode so much because they’re simply science fiction nerds, or because the movie itself is pretty entertainingly bad, but I watch MST3K for the riffing, and the riffing in this episode is sparse and not very funny. In fact, one of the main reasons I can’t watch this episode is that there are so many riffable moments in the movie where Mike and the bots just giggle. It’s toe-curlingly frustrating.
THE FINAL SACRIFICE is a funny episode, but not really worthy of the rhapsodizing from MSTies in general. I certainly enjoy this episode, but aside from the middle when Troy and Zap first hook up the rest of the riffing isn’t consistently funny. Also, the persistent Larry Czonka riff is just bad. It’s almost as if they kept repeating it in hopes that it would magically become a funny obscure reference.
Also:
PRINCE OF SPACE
LASERBLAST
TISCWSLABMZ
Underrated:
SQUIRM. I adore this episode. Really really excellent riffing throughout, and one of the best shorts ever. I suspect when this is finally reviewed here we’re gonna get the same tired “the short overwhelms the movie” echo-chamber, but this is a rock-solid episode all around. “You gonna be da wormface!” “No Mike’s socks!”
THE GIRL IN LOVER’S LANE. Not much to really add about this one, but I just never really hear the this episode getting the love it deserves. One of my top ten.
Also:
TEENAGE STRANGLER
THE TOUCH OF SATAN
ATTACK OF THE EYE CREATURES
“Mike “ex-genius” Kelley says:
March 6, 2010 at 9:24 am
Since it was recently reviewed, I do think “Hobgoblins” is vastly overrated (almost unwatchable by me). My theory is that it’s you kids (“You darn kids!”) who weren’t even on the planet when I grew up during the 50’s and 60’s (my favorite era for MST3K movies) who enjoy it so much because it represents your own childhood. Hey, we all have our goofy childhood pleasures — for me it’s films like “The Violent Years” and “Amazing Colossal Man”.
Indeed, that could be another weekend topic — favorite MST3K episodes by generation. My guess is it would be pretty clearly divided by when you grew up as to which films were your favorites.”
Take this is a compliment to the older bad movies, but to me they are not as bad as the newer movies. Yes, I was a little kid during the 1980s, but that’s not why I really like an episode like Hobgoblins. I have this running theory that the newer bad movies are worse than the older bad movies. I’d say that the starting point is the 1970s and it continues today. It’s even worse today with all of the bad CGI being used in B-movies. Have you seen any of the crap that’s shown Saturday nights on the SyFy Channel? It’s awful and I hope it all gets riffed on day. I’ll take cheap stop motion animation and bad costumes over bad CGI any day. Do I excuse the bad old movies, like the works of Coleman Francis? No, especially his god awful Beast of Yucca Flats, but the newer stuff is not only worse but it also ends up being funnier on its own.
Speaking of Beast of Yucca Flats . . . .
Overrated: Manos The Hands of Fate.
Underrated: The Beast of Yucca Flats.
Why?
Here’s why.
Manos The Hands of Fate is regarded as the worst movie on MST3K. I must strongly disagree. Nothing is worse than The Beast of Yucca Flats. Even the cliched “ultimate bad movie” Plan 9 From Outer Space is better than The Beast of Yucca Flats.
I generally avoid The Beast of Yucca Flats, but when I do watch it I realize that it does have good riffing and host segments. So I am guilty of underrating this episode because of how bad the movie is.
OVERRATED:
I was shocked here awhile back when everyone had a group lovefest for The Starfighters. I’ve tried watching it multiple times so it can “click” with me, but it just hasn’t. My favorite part of the movie are the jokes about the pushy, effeminate dad. The poopie suit stuff is funny for about 2 seconds, to me at least. Great sketches though.
UNDERRATED:
I don’t think San Franciso International got much love, probably because of all the Urkel sketches. I love this episode and think the riffing is top notch.
@65:
MANOS is generally regarded as the worst MST-ed movie, and most who have seen the majority of MST3K episodes would probably disagree. THE BEAST OF YUCCA FLATS, RED ZONE CUBA, and MONSTER A GO-GO are easily worse than MANOS.
I think the reputation that MANOS has developed over the years might be due to people getting their superlatives tangled–for a long time MANOS was widely considered the funniest MST3K episode, and often when you see MST3K mentioned in the media MANOS is the episode that is linked to it. After a while I think the two main superlative qualities MST3K is known for–“bad movies” and “hilarious”–seem to have collided with this episode and are now inextricably linked.
Also, I think for a while after MANOS aired it possibly WAS the worst movie they had done, and in my opinion it was the funniest episode of the show to date. I think when MANOS happened MST3K just hadn’t had an all-around moment of total epic genius, and it continues to stick with people.
It’s like how “Sgt. Pepper’s” is still considered to be the best Beatles album–at the time it was, and it dropped a massive bomb on all those who experienced it. But every album the Beatles made after had to live under the shadow of the cultural crater Sgt. Pepper’s left, even if some of them were obviously better.
I think that Red Zone Cuba and The Crawling Hand are overrated.
My choice for an underrated episode is Revenge of the Creature and The Amazing Colossial Man.
#59: I think the intended joke in Hamlet’s ending segment is that Fortinbras is virtually cut from EVERY production of Hamlet whether be Stage or screen, the most notable exception being Branaugh’s nearly uncut Hamlet (may have spelled his name wrong, sorry Ken). Even Rosencrantz and Guildenstern get more respect than this poor sap (not to mention their own play). Fortinbras’ sole purpose for being in the play, besides being a semi-foil, was to fill in the power vacuum at the end, as Shakespeare’s audience believed that some authority and order had to be restored, a theme that ran through all of Will’s tragedies. For the modern audience, however, this particular resolution often seems unneeded and in my opinion the lack of restored order makes for deeper, better tragedies. Sadly for Fortinbras that means he’s first on the chopping block. If I see a production of Hamlet that happens to have Fortinbras, my first reaction is “wow, lets see what they do with him”, which often sadly turns out to be not much.
As for the ending segment of the Hamlet episode, there are probably some who saw it and said “Fortin-who?” But I’d guess that the average Mystie would get the reference, but seeing as the character is cut from most productions (including Olivier’s Oscar-winning Hamlet), I’d say his omission is hardly the reason why so many Mysties don’t like the episode. I’d guess the reason is simply because there are few things harder to watch than badly-done Shakespeare, and no question this was terrible Shakespeare.
Please don’t take this in a confrontational way, I’m actually thrilled you brought up Fortinbras and I just wanted to share my thoughts on that subject. I’m sorry if it seemed like a lecture; I’m just a theater enthusiast. :mrgreen:
#59 Looking back on your comment, (blush) :oops: I realized you may have been being sarcastic (not always easy to tell in writing). If so, my bad. ;-) Hope you enjoyed reading it though :grin:
I’d have to agree and say “Manos” is very overrated. If you take away how bad the movie is, then this episode is below average.
Underrated would have to be “Horrors of Spider Island”. A really good episode with great riffs and skits.
Wow, with the variety of responses here, I’d guess that, if you all came over to hang out & watch MST eps, it might take a while to select one we’d all enjoy. On the plus side, I think we would eventually reach a consensus and be able to watch one, or even two.
I’ll supply the chips & dip if you bring the tequila…..
Definitely Pod People in the overrated camp. Great call. I did fall for Rowsdower, too, but I thought Final Sacrifice is slightly overrated. Also, last time I watched it Giant Spider Invasion (along with ISCWSLABMUZ, parts: and Jack Frost) didn’t do much for me. I actually thought the early part of season 8 was better than the middle even though those are the eps which get all the acclaim.
But I think Agent for HARM is underrated just because nobody’s brought it up and it’s in my top 10. The riffing is so creative and I love the Prince jokes. Soultaker also deserves more attention than it gets.
I agree with the earlier assertions about why “Manos” is beloved – it was the first example of cosmic synergy that the Brains could produce. Whether it is the ultimate example of bad movie/brilliant riffing is a matter of taste.
I also agree that the enormous amount of riffing that relies on cultural references is a big reason the results vary widely among fans. I’m privileged to have my 23-year old daughters as MST3K buddies, and they will miss a fair number of riffs because they lack the cultural context.
Anyway, I’m in the Pod People is overrated camp. Yes, it’s charming and yes, it has some notable riffs, but over all it lacks sufficient inherent weirdness and/or incisive riffing to put it on my list of “go-to” episodes.
BTW, I would never, EVER introduce MST3K to anyone via Manos, Monster a-go-go, or any Colman Francis episode. IMO you need to build up to those.
Underrated:
Wild World of Batwoman
Many people (including Mighty Jack) disagree, but this episode never fails to make me laugh. From the riffs (“That’s 40 lbs of butt in 30-lb-butt-capacity pants”), the inherent comedy from the consummate weirdness of the film, such as Heathcliff, the random insertion of Mole People, the seance with the spirit who speaks fake Chinese, the replicating Rat-Finks, etc. All this plus a great short.
Uh, that should have read “comic synergy”….sorry
Yeah, I think the generational reference thing might have something to do with what people believe are the over/under for MST3K episodes. The earlier Comedy Central episodes were made quite a while ago now, so some of that stuff goes over even more heads now. Also, I think in the Comedy Central days there were a lot more extremely obscure references in the show–possibly due to the writers (Trace, Joel, Frank) who were not there during the Sci-Fi days. I do think there is a discernible difference in the comedic flavor of the two eras.
It has always seemed to me that if you started watching during the Sci-Fi years, there is a tendency to overrate those era’s shows, and underrate the CC shows. And likewise, vice-versa.
Overrated: Any episode with Hercules. The moon Men, Unchained…just dull.
Underrated: I Accuse My Parents. It’s my favorite and I don’t hear people ranting about it NEARLY as much as they should.
There seem to be very few references that are before my time though there are some that I only learned years later. Like when I first saw Design for Dreaming I didn’t have the foggiest idea who Cyd Charisse was.
Overrated: Godzilla vs. Megalon to me has the worst riffing of any of the dubbed Japanese movies they did. I watched it at a convention right after Space Mutiny and it was like night and day because there were lots of stretches with no laughs in GvsM. It’s memorable and important in MST history but just not that funny.
I think the majority is right on most of the most popular episodes like Manos, Mitchell, etc.
Underrated: Danger!! Death Ray might be the episode I most want to come out on DVD. The music, the name “Bart Fargo”, the toy cars, the dubbing, it’s all perfect.
Others underrated ones: Leech Woman, Deadly Bees.
MAN am I glad someone else rates “Pod People” a total snore. I cannot STAND that movie.
As for “Leech Woman,” the best riffs have to be “I’m all out of water– will whiskey do?” and the bit where all the little children start running out of the village and Mike sings the “Sesame Street” theme. I really can’t believe they got away with that one, actually…
#53: Admittedly, it’s a good analogy! :grin:
Red Zone Cuba is a snore. Seems the best riffs are at the beginning and after that I’m done with it.
I’m down with MP @76 astute analysis of CC vs SF debate. I think one of the main reasons this show stayed on for 10 years was due to all the changes that occurred and were handled very deftly by BB and the fans. Joel, Josh and Trace were terrific and Kevin, Mike and Bill were different but terrific in their own rights.
I thought I would throw some love out for The Creeping Terror! Very underrated.
I agree with many in the comments that any overrated/underrated discussion can be linked to how young/old someone is, notably the divide between those who like the newer MSTied films and those who like the more vintage B/W movies. (Personally, I fall into being a younger fan, so the later seasons/newer movies work far better for me, though most episodes in the series have merit.) In fact, the fact MST3K sampled such a wide variety of movies from so many eras/genres was sorta rewarding in a sense – well, if you enjoyed watching really bad movies.
Overrated:
– Santa Claus Conquers The Martians: I make an honest effort to watch this every Christmas, but just get pulled out by how absolutely dreadful it is! Is this seriously a kids’ movie? It’s way too scary for children and Droppo is one of the few characters from any MST3K movie that needs to be dragged from the movie and beaten within an inch of his life. Joel and the bots try hard, but I just get so, so very bitter about the film around the middle of the episode.
– Wild Wild World Of Batwoman: A shame, because the film is preceeded by ‘Cheating’, one of the best shorts MST3K ever did. The main feature is bleak, grey, grey…did I mention it was grey? The hijinks fall flat, the girls act too insipid to be considered sexy and all of that greatly affects the riffing, though there are some bright spots here and there.
Underrated:
– Future War: I feel this episode takes a few tries to fully appreciate. Once I got over the fact that it’s not the future and there technically isn’t a war going on, I laughed at the sheer absurdity of all of it. The Van Damme lookalike with his repetitive fighting style, Robert Z’Dar hamming it up without any effort necessary, forced-perspective dinosaurs, everyone in the supporting cast and, of course, the ludicrously bad editing/special effects all throughout. I can never keep a straight face during the “police station” shootout, for instance.
– I Accuse My Parents: This doesn’t get enough praise for being, in my opinion, the perfect Joel episode. It’s the perfect type of film for his era – the film is harmless, silly fluff and the riffs are more condescending and playful rather than the scorched earth approach the MST writers used in the later seasons. I wouldn’t want to see a Mike-helmed version of this episode, much like I don’t think a Joel-led version of ‘Space Mutiny’ or ‘Hobgoblins’ would be nearly as good either. Does that make sense?
Man, this is a GREAT thread! I’m watching some of my favorites (Cave Dwellers, Pod People, DTEF) get hammered, and suddenly I realize how others feel that I gave some of their favorite episodes an “F”.
Oh, well. As Crow says, “The sun can’t shine on the same dog’s ass every day.”
(Please don’t hate me for quoting, Sampo!)
Overrated:
Space Mutiny (movie is hilarious, always thought the riffing was just OK and the host segments were poor)
The Day the Earth Froze (sorry, Sampo)
The Final Sacrifice (like it, don’t love it)
Jack Frost (never understood the fascination with it.)
Cave Dwellers
Underrated:
The Lost Continent (in my top 5 ever)
Master Ninja I and II (my favorite episodes)
High School Bigshot
San Francisco International
King Dinosaur
Under:
Since I found the show on the Sci-Fi channel, the Rhino boxsets were my first exposure to Joel. And maybe I was just distracted by all the pretty colors (and girls) but Catalina Caper (v.1) and Sidehackers (v.3) were early favorites, much easier to “grok” than some of the slow B&W oddities like Creeping Terror & Skydivers (which I did learn to love). My affinity for groovy 60’s flicks probably explains my great admiration for Season Ten’s Girl In Gold Boots. While it is usually highly rated among fans, I don’t see it mentioned often enough.
Over:
I think another factor in the over-rating of Manos was it’s relative obscurity and lack of critical defenders among B-movie cultists. To those already familiar with Plan 9, MST were introducing them to a new low in film-making. One can manage Plan 9 without the riffing, but Manos is not as forgiving. Joel & TB were pioneers in this strange new land, and the sense of discovery maybe inflates a “good” episode to a “great” one.
The flip side of this is MST3K: The Movie — This Island Earth. No “cosmic synergy” here.
I’m not one of those who finds TIE “too good to be riffed” but it’s relative qualities do hinder M&TB’s efforts to ridicule it properly. I do not have the sentimental attachment many MSTies have for The Movie as I saw it years after the show ended and I had become a fan via the DVDs. My biggest problem is that the Brains seem like pale imitations of themselves, neutered in their riffing, when they could have been cutting loose in a PG-rated setting. Dr. Forrester’s mugging for the camera is way too broad for my taste, and he just seems unanchored without TV’s Frank. I’ve seen the outtakes of the host segments and they are indeed superior to what they went with. I know all the stories of studio interference, and they just prove my point:
the movie was a mistake to begin with.
In addition to not finding it outrageously funny (I’d rate it a 3 star episode), the movie always reminds me that it was the wedge that drove Joel away from the show. And while I love Mike as host (and Bill as Crow), the loss of “Jolene” inspired the exits of Frank and Trace. But the worst effect the movie had was that by distracting the Brains attentions from the regular show, it hastened their demise at Comedy Central. And it’s failure at the box-office demonstrated to the Sci-Fi Channel, who were about to sign them, that there were definite limits to the appeal of MST.
Oh, and I’m not a fan of the ACEGuide either, published around the same awkward time of cast transitions and bad blood (i.e., the idea of a book about MST without any input from Joel is sheer madness). I find it badly laid out and unfunny. Probably seemed a good idea at the time, but it’s usefulness as a resource has been supplanted by many of the websites we discussed last weekend. It’s unworthy of a reprint, and we’ll probably never see a revised, complete edition. A missed opportunity, forced into existence by the hubris of mid-90’s Best Brains Inc.
Overrated:
Hobgoblins – There’s just not a lot going on in this one for me.
Any of the Gamera movies – I LOVE the skit with Mike playing piano, but I haven’t gotten all the way though a Gamera movie in one sitting yet.
Underrated:
Hamlet – So uh, how’s the play going?
Riding With Death – This one’s like a comfortable blanket for me. Lucky us, we’re about to find out he’s Ben Murphy.
“Riding With Death – This one’s like a comfortable blanket for me.”
=========================
YAY! This is my favorite episode and it’s great to know that no matter how bad my day went I can pop in this episode and it will always get me to smile and laugh.
“So they have 13 hours to get from Torrance to Long Beach?” *LOVE*
Overrated: Diabolik. I thought that was a bad sendoff movie, no replay value besides the host segments.
Underrated: Robot Monster. This is a sentimental favorite of mine because it was the first episode of MST for me.
Most overrated for me is Final Sacrifice. There is nothing remarkable about that episode for me and just saying “Rowsdower” a hundred times was not the best comedy writing ever done on the show. I’ll never understand why this episode is so popular. It’s okay for me, but nothing special. Puma Man is the next most overrated episode for me.
Most underrated would have to be First Spaceship On Venus. It never floats near the top of fan polls, but it’s an absolute favorite around my house. Fun movie, great comedy writing from start to finish by Best Brains with terrific running gags and host segments throughout.
Several of my personal favorite episodes I consider to be underrated, in particular Sinbad (“Who is this guy Skinbag?”) and Side Hackers (“I read your book you magnificent bastard!”)
It is more difficult for me to come up with overrated episodes since they are almost all great in their own way, but I guess I consider Puma Man to be a bit overrated. The movie was just goofy, but since I thought the filmmakers were deliberately going for that I didn’t find it the mockery of it to be as much fun as it otherwise should be.
#89: “Underrated: Robot Monster. This is a sentimental favorite of mine because it was the first episode of MST for me.”
I agree. The first season does kind of suck overall–too many dead spots without riffing–but Robot Monster keeps up a good pace. It also has one of MST3K’s darkest riffs when Ro-Man is preparing to kill the little girl: “Lovely! Lovely!” A reference to Frenzy that surprised the hell out of me the first time I picked up on it.
[My apologies if this appears twice, as I may have accidentally hit “submit” while editing.]
Under:
Since I found the show on the Sci-Fi channel, the Rhino boxsets were my first exposure to Joel. And maybe I was just distracted by all the pretty colors (and girls) but Catalina Caper (v.1) and Sidehackers (v.3) were early favorites, much easier to “grok” than some of the slow B&W oddities like Creeping Terror & Skydivers (which I did learn to love). My affinity for groovy 60’s flicks probably explains my great love for Season Ten’s Girl In Gold Boots. While it is usually highly rated among fans, I don’t see it mentioned often enough.
Over:
I think another factor in the over-rating of Manos was it’s relative obscurity and lack of critical champions among B-movie buffs. To those already familiar with Plan 9 From Outer Space, MST were introducing them to a new low in film-making. One can manage Plan 9 without the riffing, but Manos is not as forgiving. Joel & TB were pioneers in this strange new land, and the sense of discovery maybe inflates a “good” episode to a “great” one.
The flip side of this is MST3K: The Movie — This Island Earth. No “cosmic synergy” here, though it did succeed in turning on a few new people to the show. I’m not one of those who finds TIE “too good to be riffed” but it’s relative qualities do hinder M&TB’s efforts to ridicule it properly. And I do not have the sentimental attachment many MSTies have for The Movie as I saw it years after the show ended and I had become a fan via the DVDs.
My biggest problem is that the Brains seem like pale imitations of themselves, neutered in their riffing, when they could have been cutting loose in a PG-rated setting. Dr. Forrester’s mugging for the camera is way too broad for my taste, and he just appears unanchored without TV’s Frank. I’ve seen the outtakes of the host segments and they are indeed superior to what they went with. I know all the stories of studio interference, and they just support my conclusion:
The movie was a mistake to begin with.
In addition to not finding it outrageously funny (I’d rate it a 3 star episode), the movie always reminds me that it was the wedge that drove Joel away from the show. And while I love Mike as host (and Bill as Crow), the loss of “Jolene” inspired the exits of Frank and Trace. But the worst effect the movie had was that by distracting the Brains attentions from the regular show, it hastened their demise at Comedy Central. And it’s failure at the box-office demonstrated to the Sci-Fi Channel, who were about to sign them, that there were definite limits to the appeal of MST.
Oh, and I’m not a fan of the ACEGuide either, published around the same awkward time of cast transitions and bad blood (i.e., the idea of a book about MST without any input from Joel is sheer madness). I find it badly laid out and unfunny. Probably seemed a good idea at the time, but it’s usefulness as a resource has been supplanted by many of the websites we discussed last weekend. It’s unworthy of a reprint, and we’ll probably never see a revised, complete edition. A wasted opportunity, forced into existence by the hubris of mid-90’s Best Brains Inc.
[Poopie! my first post just showed up. Again, sorry for the double post. #94 is the preferred version]
Addendum: If Jim Mallon were smart (and I’m not convinced he is: his subsequent business decisions have made him the “red-headed stepchild” of the MST universe in my eyes. “mst3k.com” anyone?) he would commission a new edition of the ACEGuide, with contributions from all participants, including the technical staff. Published with a new layout and in full color. Might not sell like hotcakes, but it should, over time, prove profitable. And it would give Mallon the opportunity to have the final word about the MST phenomenon.
Similarly, Universal should do a “double-dip” on MST3K: The Movie, if only for Blu-Ray, with outtakes, deleted scenes, and a warts-and-all documentary on the process of how it was made and marketed. And maybe have current the CT/RT crews riff on the scenes cut from the original film.
I’ve always thought “Quest of the Delta Knights” was terribly underrated. It seems like of everyone I’ve talked to, the only people who really enjoyed this were kind of pre-disposed to all things ren-festy. Which I most definitely am not. But the riffing was fantastic, the host segments were all quite funny, and we got to see Pearl in the theater! Mary Jo’s riffing was truly righteous (“Let me see…get bent. No, I guess I can’t”).
As for overrated…I know I’ll never hear the end of this but “Santa Claus Conquers The Martians”. While the riffing is great and the host segments are classics, the movie itself just kills me. I always hate the phrase “J/M&TB couldn’t save this one”, and that’s not exactly the case here. I just can’t stay focused on this one. The bizarre plot, terrible acting, awful production values, truly baffling dialogue, ect. are what makes for the best episodes, but this one just tears down my will to live.
I’ll have to concur with a lot of others that Pod People is really overrated. Totally boring except for the skits.
Underrated:
Rocket Attack USA
I always thought that this was a really strong episode. The multitude of dumb plots keep it from being leaden and dreary like some of the other eps with super low production values like Starfighters and the Coleman Francis movies.
Mighty Jack
Lots of good riffing and the gang seems to go with the goofiness of the movie rather than ranking on it i.e. Pod People. To me, it’s the most entertaining of the secret agent movies they did. It’s interesting to watch this back-to-back with “What’s Up, Tiger Lily.” The Brains win that fight big-time.
Also, here’s a suggestion for a future topic, debate team style – Resolved: The episodes that featured movies aimed at kids were better than those of movies aimed at adults.
Overrated: Mitchell, Santa Claus Conquers the Martians, Prince of Space
Underrated: High School Big Shot, Being From Another Planet, The Leech Woman
Underrated: The Crawling Hand-it definitely starts out slow but gets better, I especially like the string of ‘fish’ puns. The Beginning of the End-not side-splitting but it’s reliably funny (it’s a bug-hunt man!). Danger! Death Ray!-if this gets a dvd release its reputation will improve. Quest of the Delta Knights and Phantom Planet are ones I never get tired of. Overrated: Mitchell, it’s not bad but it’s just not as involving or as well-paced as Final Justice. Time Chasers-I like it but not as much as other people do.
Overrated: City Limits. I know a lot of MSTies go ga-ga over this one because of Robby Benson, James Earl Jones and it introduced Crow’s love of Kim Katral, but for me, the whole movie is too boring for the riffing to make funny.
Underrated: I have several, actually. In my opinion, The Painted Hills, The Magic Sword, and the Beverly Garland western Gunslinger don’t get the props they deserve. Like it says in the episode guide, 12 To The Moon gets overshadowed because it was paired with the short Design For Dreaming, but I thought the movie itself was pretty darn funny.