Here’s a good topic for weekend discussion: “episodes I hated or just disliked at first, but now love.”
Ooh, good one! Me, I would pick episode 615- KITTEN WITH A WHIP. Something about the movie turned me off the first couple of times I saw it, but when I watched it more recently for the episode guide, it just cracked me up and the movie didn’t bug me at all.
And, you know, I guess since we’re doing this, we should also probably allow comments on the reverse: episodes you initially liked but later soured on.
Which one(s) would you pick?
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Touch of Satan, definitely. The first time I saw it I had a hard time staying awake during the pregnant pauses. But my wife and I recently gave it another try, and laughed ourselves silly. The riffing is great.
I’ve always wondered why so many MST3K fans hate Hamlet so badly. The movie is terrible, of course–dark, dreary, slow, badly dubbed, etc. But Hamlet has always been my favorite Shakespeare, so I find the riffing pee-in-your-pants funny. Maybe you just have to be a big fan of play to appreciate some of the humor.
I didn’t like The Beast of Yucca Flats at first, now it’s one my favorites. In the opposite direction, I liked King Dinosaur for a long time. Now I find it’s my least favorite season 2 episode.
And now, for you’re reading pleasure, a rant: I am surprised by the number of people who judge an episode by the actual movie/TV show being watched. This type of opinion is stated on a lot of MST3K discussion sites. My first thought always is, “Who is watching this show for the movies/TV shows being riffed?” I mean, come on, they’re supposed to be bad. If they were good, they wouldn’t be talking over it! Jeez! Breathe…alright, they’re probably cheesy movie fans, something that I am not. Thank You for you’re time. Rant over. :mrgreen:
“Girl in Lovers’ Lane” did nothing for me when I first saw it. But after a second and third viewing, I began to appreciate the “Big Stupid” passim. As for the opposite, I can no longer stand to wade through “Sidehackers” for a few chili pepper jokes and “number 9!” quips. Most of the older Joel eps (Seasons 1 and 2), when contrasted with the more polished and better executed and written later episodes, have lost their luster. There are exceptions, but I just don’t look forward to watching them as much as I did in the past.
Randy
#51: “My first thought always is, ‘Who is watching this show for the movies/TV shows being riffed?'”
It is not invariably true but usually true that an entertaining MST3K episode requires an entertaining movie. If the movie is really dull, painful, or soulless it drags the show down with it. On the other hand, movies that are goofy fun on their own are even better with riffing.
Count me in with the “Hamlet” people. I hated it at first, but it really, really grew on me. It’s not anywhere near as bad as its reputation suggests.
“Starfighters” was a tough one to get through initially, but it improves when you go back to it.
Although I had trouble with “Radar Secret Service,” I’d like to give it another try real soon.
The only episode that I’ve had a large change of heart on is “The Undead,” which didn’t become funny until the third viewing. There’s just something funny about the rules of the movie’s universe and the psychologists’ total lack of ethics. (“STAY!”)
As far as movie quality goes, I hated both Rocky Jones movies (“Manhunt in Space” and “Crash of the Moons”) when I first saw them. But then I watched them again several months ago, and really enjoyed the movies themselves. Unlike many MST3K films, the Rocky Jones series wasn’t incompetently made or a terrible movie. It’s just aged poorly. When you consider the intended audience and the time period, it’s actually pretty good. In fact, I’ve considered paying a friend to make me a Rocky Jones costume for Halloween!
I haven’t had a seismic shift of opinion on any other movies, except perhaps “Jack Frost” and “The Day the Earth Froze,” which both seem less funny than I remember.
#54, I don’t have any particular taste for a genre that they do. That being said, you hit the 2 favorite types of movies they riffed over that I loved: Painful and Goofy. Magic Voyage of Sinbad is my favorite episode. Goofy? You bet, like all the Russian/Finish films. And painful, I love Sidehackers, Monster A Go-Go, “Manos”, Creeping Terror, High School Big Shot…I feel that Joel/Mike and the Bots riffing was never better then on movies like these.
Firs ttime I watched it THE CREEPING TERROR episode was so boring, I nearly fell asleep. But I enjoy it now.
Red Zone Cuba. At first I thought it was a dull and slow episode, bet then I opened my eyes to the absurdity mike and the bots pointed out. now it is on my list of favorites.
“Girl in Gold Boots”
I didn’t care for it at all when it aired on Sci-Fi and I would not buy it if it wasn’t in a volume set.
Watched it recently, and it’s actually not that bad of an episode. I just wish other episodes would get better the more I watch them, though.
San Francisco International
When this first aired it may have immediately gone to the bottom of my list. I found very little funny about it. Years later when I started to build up my DVD collection, as a completist I ultimately got this episode. Weeks later I reluctantly sat down to watch it and within the first 15-20 minutes I couldn’t understand why I didn’t like it because I could not stop laughing. And the last segment with Davey just put it over the top. It went from my Bottom 10 to my Top 10 in one showing.
The Leech Woman
This was one of my meh episodes for a long time. It wasn’t until recently that it started to grow on me. Now every time I watch it gets better and better. I love all the booze riffs, probably because they hit so close to home. ;-)
On the other side if I had one episode that has gone the other way it would have to be Pod People. I remember really enjoying watching it originally, but on subsequent viewing it just has held up for me. Although I will say it features what is my all-time favorite riff. When everyone is in the cabin and they’re getting ready to have breakfast and a girl screams. They go running to the bedroom to find the girl who had fallen was dead. The lady who lived there was getting everbody out of the room when:
Crow – “C’mon, your breakfast is getting cold and she’s not getting any warmer . . . . more oatmeal for everyone.”
I missed out on about 15 minutes after because I couldn’t stop laughing at that. Maybe I loved that riff so much it originally skewered my opinion of this episode.
This week’s Episode Guide feature The Deadly Bees fits the bill for me. I’m a Hammer/Amicus/Tigon enthusiast so I was excited when I first acquired this episode but was immediately dismayed at how dull it was. I could barely recall it once it was over. A year ago I’d have rated it 2 stars at best.
But watching it again this past week in preparation for our discussion, the charms of Mike & the Bots won me over. They use the cliched British dryness as a launching point for some really effective, understated humor. I voted it a 3 (really a 3.5) but then realized that if I gave 5 stars to Werewolf (Best in Show), that DB’z really deserved higher marks from this judge. Glad to see other voters here have raised it to a near 4.0 star ranking.
And I’ll echo other’s appreciation for Hamlet. It’s not the total disaster some make it out to be. It’ll be fun to discuss when we get to Season Ten.
While I agree Manos, Mitchell, Santa Claus v. Martians, and Final Sacrifice are bona fide classics, I’m admittedly kind of burnt out on them and actually look forward to giving some of the more neglected titles another chance to WOW me. Wild World of Batwoman, I’m looking at you…
Season zero- Superdome
Season one- Robot Monster
Season two- King Dinosaur
Season Three- Stranded in Space
Season four- The Human Duplicators
Season five- The Atomic Brain
Season six- The Starfighters
Season Seven- Escape 2000
Season Eight- The Incredibly Strange Creatures….
Season Nine- Gorgo
Season Ten- Girl in gold boots
I have one other, The Dead Talk Back. Inexplicably, I would fall asleep within the first 30 minutes. This occurred several times. For a very long time it was shelved as I knew the first 30 minutes well. I finally had an expresso and made my way through it and I was pleasantly surprised. Although slow it had lotsa weird characters and dialogue along with solid riffing.
I’d say “Angels Revenge” at first, not sure why, but after watching it again a few months after my intial viewing, it is still constantly funny.I still have trouble watching many of the J. Elvis-era Tom Servo episodes. I think J. Elvis is funny, but just didn’t do much for me on the show…
I guess it would have to be It Conquered the World, I like it more every time I watch it, nearly 100% of the jokes are really good. It could be my perfect episode as far as riffs go.
#64 – “The Dead Talk Back. Inexplicably, I would fall asleep within the first 30 minutes.” What’s so inexplicable about that? Although I like the episode, it is an insomnia cure.
If there is one episode that I would say has grown on me it would be The Wild Wild World of Batwoman. It is just plain goofiness from beginning to end. And it is the best Jerry Warren movie I have seen. But, it started off as kind of a snore. BTW, the other JW films are just plain bad. It’s too bad M/J&TB didn’t find those.
Great topic! There are many episodes where this has happened to me. The two that really stand out, however, are Tortured and Screaming Skull. I didn’t care much for either the first time around and now they are both in my top 20. Also, after a long, hard struggle I finally grew into Mighty Jack. The first three or four times I watched it I just didn’t care for it all. One of my least favorites. I watched it last week for the first time in a couple of years and I couldn’t stop laughing. Totally surprised me!
Geez, now Hamlet is getting WAY too much love in these here comments. Weird.
As for the topic, Overdrawn At The Memory Bank is my choice. I couldn’t get past the look and the weirdness of the movie at first, but it really is a phenomenal episode.
I didn’t think that “Devil Fish” was that good on my first viewing. But I’ve watched it several times since then and it has really grown on me. I love the little things that Joel/Mike and the bots fixate on in the course of a film. In “Devil Fish,” those things are the ugly villain (“I wonder if that boat is powered by HIS FACE.”), the Europeans-as-Floridians jokes, and there are some very goofy jokes that Tom tells (A tentacles comes over the side of the boat, Tom: That’s so big it’s an eleventacle.” Which Mike reprimands him for.
Another such episode is “The Phantom Planet,” which I fell asleep during on my first viewing. It has gotten funnier on repeat viewings, especially all of the call-backs to the “Good and the Beautiful” speech.
I had a problem with “Manos” at first, because it was just so bad that I couldn’t get through it. Then, I saw it with a group at ConventioCon I and finally got to hear the great riffing which made the movie tolerable. (Probably the biggest laugh came in response to Joel’s “DO SOMETHING!!!”) Now, I can see the ep for the funny effort that it is, though the movie is still awful.
High School Big Shot. I loved the short but it took me multiple viewings before I could actually watch the “movie” portion all the way. It was just so DULL, which I generally find to be the hardest episodes to watch, but it grew to be one of my favorites once I finally made it to the Laurel and Hardy safe-cracker and liquor store owner duo. Their back-and-forth was better than the rest of the movie.
I despised Deadly Bees once. But then the Dog’s Meat made it all better.
Two come to mind. The first is “Deadly Mantis.” The first time I saw it I couldn’t get into it at all. But then I noticed how great the riffs were and now watch it at least once a month. The second is “The Thing That Couldn’t Die.” The two chicks are really hot, especially after Jessica transforms into the devilish slut.
I didn’t really enjoy “Red Zone Cuba” and “The Skydivers” for a couple viewings, but now they’re among my favorites. I have never been able to do this with “Beast of Yucca Flats,” somehow.
I really, really enjoy “Track of the Moon Beast” but at first I did not like this one at all. It was a couple of years before it clicked.
Manos was like that, I can only watch it maybe once a year
My wife and I saw Sidehackers during season two and thought it was dreadful the first time. Then when we saw it again later that season in a rerun we thought it was quite funny. We realized then that the first time you watch an episode you sometimes get caught up in the movie more than the jokes and when the movie is that bad you miss how funny the episode really is. Once you’re familiar with the movie then you focus on the jokes in the repeat viewings and really get a lot out of what MST3K did to the movie. Sidehackers is still one of the most dreadful movies they ever did and the edits that were required to use it prove the point, but MST3K did a great job with it in spite of or perhaps because of how bad it is.
Yeah, #77 hit the nail on the head, although I don’t know if I’d use the phrase ‘caught up in the movie.’ That implies that the films are worth watching on their own, and most of the MST films weren’t. I often found that some of the really unwatchable films would make it difficult to initially enjoy the riffs. It takes repeat viewings before you are able to numb yourself to the film and get past the awfulness enough to truly start enjoying the riffs. Sidehackers was a good example of this. It took me about four viewings before I really enjoyed the riffing. Other examples off the top of my head: Mighty Jack, Monster a-go-go, Wild World of Batwoman and She creature. There are many other but I’m sleepy………..
To follow on from 77 and 78, I find that a lot of the time I have trouble keeping track of both the movie and the riffs. So the first time I watch an MST3k, I miss out on a lot of both the movie and the riffing. It’s only on repeated viewings that I have an idea of the plot and the story and can understand a lot of the jokes.
Funny how my mind sometimes cannot follow the parallel lines at the same time.
Don’t know if anyone’s mentioned Horror at Party Beach, but, yeah, that’s mine. At first it was “meh”… too slow for me in some parts. I still skip through the whole three-girls-from-New-York bit, but it’s now one of my favorite episodes. Especially Eulabelle, (“Just smile at the stupid white people!”) the daughter’s incomprehensible dubbing, and the Beau Brummels (“and all the flesh slipped off my skuuuuull”). Oh, l’amour!
Did I say Beau Brummels? I meant the Del-Whatevers!
For me it would have to be The Starfighters. At first the movie was so dull I couldn’t stand it, but now even without the riffs (that I find to be pretty consistent throughout) I find the sheer inanity of the movie itself hilarious.
I wasn’t crazy about Attack of the (the) Eye Creatures the first time I saw it. I like it much better now.
There’s been a few that have grown on me over time. I first saw “Cave Dwellers” and “Tormented” during that hot minute when MST3k was syndicated on the weakest UHF channel in South Jersey, and both left me a little cold. They were good but not great. Then, upon rewatching them a few times, they’re both favorites. There’s also ones where I think having a brilliant short front-loaded the episode – others have mentioned “Red Zone Cuba” and “The Unearthly”, but I’d add “Monster a Go-Go” to the list (“Shut up and watch the deer get slaughtered!”). While all three have some good material, it’s destined to pale in comparison to the awesome shorts.
Happily, I can’t think of any that have lost their luster over time.
Mac, monoceros4 – I think that genre plays a HUGE part in attracting/repelling certain viewers from certain episodes. I’m a big “sword & sandal” fan, so I love eps like “Cave Dwellers”. However, the drama episodes leave me cold. I’ll take “Cave Dwellers” 7.7 RPMs over “Skydivers” 10.3 RPMs any day.
I would say almost every KTMA episode. When I got my hands on a VHS copy of Season 0 years ago, I watched them in one long marathon…..and hated that I had wasted my money on the things. Within the past couple years I began converting them to DVD and have to say I really enjoy them. Sure the riffs are nowhere near Season 1 and way off from later seasons…but I love seeing the show in its earliest stage.
Gunslinger. I just never found it funny but I watched it over and over again just for the segment where Servo bilocates because I think it’s the most brilliant host segment they ever did. Finally, one day the episode just clicked with me and for some reason I was laughing out loud at jokes that didn’t even make me smile before. Who knows? Maybe I was in a bad mood the other times…
That’s easy:
– Overdrawn at the Memory Bank
I absolutely HATED this when it first aired. Since purchasing the set it was realeased in, it has become one of my “go to” episodes when I can’t think of anything else to watch. I’m sure I’ve seen it at least 30 times, if not more.
Just something about it that grabs me. I know, I’m sick….
I could not stand Touch of Satan at first. Too boring, too slow, too predictable. Now, it’s one of my absolute faves.
Well I’ve got three that fit in the “I didn’t like it at first, but now I like it”. The first is “Gunslinger” which I found to be one of the slowest episodes I’d seen. Most of Mr. Corman’s movies really drag for me, and this was no exception. But one day, I popped it in and the riffs really seemed to connect. I enjoyed it, but realized I have to be in the mood for that type of movie, Corman-slow. Still not a great episode, but a solid one.
Next would be “The Creeping Terror”. Got this when it came out on VHS, and nearly fell asleep. The second time I tried it, I did fall asleep, and so it remained on my shelf for a long time. But when I got it on DVD, I found it hilarious, great riffing for a exceptionally poor film. Now I can watch it anytime and get a good laugh. Not sure what clicked but it did.
“Red Zone Cuba” is the biggie here. Another I ended up picking up on VHS and was bored to tears with. Then my coworker ended up seeing it and was asking me all these questions about the movie itself. So I watched it again and found it absurdly funny. We talked some more, and then watched it again and it got even funnier. I played it for my wife and talked it over and it got funnier and funnier. This is now one of my favorite episodes. I will admit that it is an acquired taste, and not one I’d start anyone with. But people who can appreicate how bad movies can really get, I think they’ll enjoy this one.
The only one that I’ve found myself enjoying less and less over the years was “The Unearthly”. This was one of the early VHS releases and at the time it was a good one. I played it a lot and I’m pretty familiar with it – maybe over familiar. The last couple times I watched it, I didn’t laugh much at the feature. But the shorts are still classic!
And I’ll go on record saying that I loved “Hamlet” when it first aired, and I still love it now. A big favorite in our house, even the cat loves it. “To sleep, perhaps to DREAM! ‘the impossible DREAM!'” – heh heh heh
The ones I had little care for at first which eventually became favorites would be – Manos, Red Zone Cuba, Skydivers, Racket Girls, Crash of the Moons, War of the Colossal Beast and The Space Children.
I always had high hopes for all the Sci-Fi era shows, so I can’t say that I disliked any of them at first. I did used to think that The Girl in Gold Boots was average, but it’s now one of my all-time favorites. Same goes for Devil Doll and The Screaming Skull.
For the ones I liked a lot at first but dont regard as highly as I used to, first would be The Puma Man. I tried to watch that recently and couldnt get through it. I think I may have just overwatched though. I had the same thing happen with The Phantom Planet, couldn’t get through it.
Off Topic, but I have been on a weird kick lately watching about 9 or 10 different episodes constantly, though not really watching them but having them on while I do other stuff. But I can’t stop!
This goes back to about November, and the eps are The Girl in Gold Boots, Devil Doll, The Projected Man, Track of the Moon Beast, Killers from Space (I know but I like it), Blood Waters of Dr. Z, Space Children, Screaming Skull, Angels Revenge and The Deadly Mantis.
On New Years Eve I had Track of the Moon Beast on, and I was in another room and heard fireworks going off outside and realized it was midnite, and just then I heard Kevin Murphy sing “And the monsters red glare…”
I thought it was so neat that I named 2010 “The Year of the Moonbeast”.
Let me follow up my thoughts on The Space Children.
I think I just never really gave it a chance, but recently it’s cracked me up.
At first, the bald jokes didn’t do anything for me, but watching it recently I just about lost it on those. When Bill Corbett said “Oh, so it’s ‘don’t tell baldy’, huh?” I laughed my head off.
Plus that other one he says, “Sometimes when your bald, random thoughts bombard your head and just worm their way in” is so silly it’s hilarious.
Then the host segment of Jackie Coogan’s fashions is just insane.
I guess I liked it orignially, but I didn’t fully appreciate it as much as I do now.
And this is kind of off-topic, but I have to say that I don’t care what anyone says, ‘The Projected Man’ is knock down, drag out funny.
This one gets no respect from most people, but I would rank it in my top five, and ‘Devil Doll’ must be seen along with it, before-hand to get the full effect. (Just as I originally saw it).
I loved it from the first time I watched it, right from the opening credits. ( I love when Mike reads the names vertically rather than horizontally. “Heinz Kid and Scully Norma!”).
and now I love it even more.
I have the whole thing just about memorized, and I still can’t stop popping the dvd in every chance I get. Excellent riffing from start to finish. (Plus The Great Vorelli with orange hair – “You’re an ugly stupid little doctor”).
Camera pans on Paul’s shoes in a supposedly frightening scene) Crow: “Oh God his shoes are horrible!!…well, they’re just a little scuffed actually”.
——
Dr. Mitchell: I think it’s only shorted!
Mike as Paul: “Shut up and get orange hair!”
———
Dr. Mitchell: What was Dr. Latham doing here?
Mike as Blanchard: “Fluffing my Beard!”
I’ve given this a thought here and there the last couple of days and the only one I can come up with for myself is Invasion of the Neptune Men. I wasn’t really that big on it until I broke my arm in Jan 2001 and was laid up for about a month. I remember the Hitler sequence had me doubled over laughing. I watched it daily and the digs at Japanese pop culture grew on me too. Otherwise a lot of the episodes I fell in love with 15 years ago don’t have the bite they used to but I think that’s just familiarity on my part. Maybe it’s because I was almost 30 when I got the show but my tastes haven’t changed much over 15 years. The shows I loved on on first viewing, I still love and ones I was just OK with are still that and so on.
I’d have to say “Mitchell” was one movie that I thought was just OK at first, but upon repeat viewings liked it more and more. My husband’s pick is “Overdrawn at the Memory Bank”—I finally wore him down, and now he laughs just as hard as I do! “My nuts?!”
As for movies I liked less … “Hamlet” and “Invasion of the Neptune Men” definitely come to mind. I don’t have much stamina for them anymore :(
#84 What a small world! I fell in love with MST watching it syndicated on channel 48 from Philly. I grew up in Atlantic County. We couldn’t get Comcast to run a cable down our street until 1998 so about all I had were my staticy copies of stuff like Godzilla vs the Sea Monster, Pod People and other syndicated shows I taped.
Hmm… I guess a by-season list can work.
1. The Crawling Hand.
2. Ring of Terror
3. Fugitive Alien
4. Manos: The Hands of Fate
5. The Magic Voyage of Sinbad
6. The Skydivers
7. Laserblast
8. Giant Spider Invasion
9. Gorgo
10. Girl in Gold Boots
For me, two eps I hated the 1st time were “The Crawling Hand” and “Laserblast.” Don’t know why, but those ones sucked the first time, and now I love them. Weird.
On the other hand, two eps I loved at first but now hate are “Bloodlust” and “Santa Claus Conquers the Martians.” Maybe I’ve watched them too many times, but they can’t tickle my funny bone anymore.
BTW, #68, that’s “TORMENTED,” not “Tortured.” Wink, wink.
I am such a nerd.
Disliked but-now-liked Joel eps: The Girl in Lovers’ Lane. At first it was just so darn boring, but over time I came to appreciate the riffing on this one, and now i love it.
Like-but-now-dislike: Hercules Unchained, i loved it when it came out but now i can’t get through a viewing.
Mike era: dislike but now like: Racket Girls: I thought it was unbearably dreary especially compared to Are you ready for marriage? , but I now appreciate the whole ineptitude of the movie and Mike and the bots’ riffing,
Like but now dislike: Skydivers: At first it was my favorite Coleman Francis film but now it finishes a distant third to Yucca Flats and Red Zone Cuba.
Puma Man, actually. It took me a good three goes to get into it, just took a bit of warming to.