Thanks to Jordan, not only his hard work for many years bringing us MST3K, not only for taking the time to answer these questions, but also for the quick turnaround!
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Jordan Fields of Shout! Factory Answers Your Questions107 Replies to “Jordan Fields of Shout! Factory Answers Your Questions”Commenting at Satellite News
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Ya know, I thought it was Catalina Caper. I just thought that since there was a precident, maybe the Lippert films are attainable in the future.
I remember the “Radar Secret Service” story from the Ep. Guide – going back to the rights holder eventually paid off. We do need to have patience and in the meantime enjoy what Shout is able to get for us. But I do think a letter writing thing is a good idea.
I used to love that Rhino did double sided discs of their releases, so maybe the rights holders of Final Sacrifice would be down for that. Wonder if that’s something that’s already been “on the table” as an offer (though I’m thinkin’ Shout Factory maybe hasn’t considered double sided disks with unMSTied movies on ’em, for reasons such as cost..) So here’s what I’m picturing (in my wildest dreams…) – MST3K the Essentials II, with double sided discs of “Final Sacrifice” and “Puma Man” when we (the fans) track down the rights holder of Puma Man.
Not that this has anything to do with anything, but me personally, I really want “The Beast of Yucca Flats.”
So many people asked about Season 3, was disappointed that he didn’t get the question.
#50
Bob(NotThatBob) – Maybe we could get Jimmy from I Accuse My Parents to write a petition letter for us. You know, the whole school’s been buzzing about the essay he wrote!
========================================
well, okay. Just so his mom doesn’t
have to make the presentation to the
rights holder. :oops:
I just emailed the Library of Congress with what info I could get to see if they could get us contact information (I asked if they had info about Indoamericana Films Ltd – if they’re still in existence or if they’ve folded…, and I found the last VHS distributor on IMDBpro…) – maybe they’ll write me back (fingers crossed).
Hmm, surprised I didn’t notice that before…ROCKETSHIP X-M has copyrights from Wade Williams and Warner Brothers, and the other Lippert titles are listed under a recent Warner Brothers copyright file (as well as Kit Parker). What a mess.
But at least they’re not totally out of the question, it’s just a matter of time hopefully.
I was excited to learn that Shout has a relationship with MGM, Fox and Sony. That’s really encouraging for the future. I expect that Shout will go for the easy stuff first, then start chippin’ away at whatever else they can get, as it comes up.
To me it would’ve been superfluous to ask about a particular season (season 3, etc.)
He was very clear that they would publish any episode if they could clear all the red tape in the way.
This was a nice, informative little article. There is one thing I am a little concerned about though. Given how many times he references the fans, and wanting to please them (which is nice to hear) I would hope that he and the other folks at Shout understand that re-releasing Rhino episodes MIXED IN WITH NEW EPISODES would be about the lowest, dirtiest “screw you” they could give to the fans. I have absolutely no problem with the idea of them eventually re-releasing some of the Rhino episodes, especially the ones from sets that went out of print a while before the switch to Shout Factory, but they should only do it either as individual releases or as entire sets of re-released episodes. Any mixing and matching of previously released eps with new to DVD eps would be a very disrespectful thing to do to the fans who already have many or all of the DVDs released so far. The only problem is that by doing that they would be practically guaranteeing less than stellar sales for a set since those people would most likely not be buying it. And so sadly I see the financial pressure would be to release sets with a mixture of new and old episodes to try to keep sales up by forcing those people to buy something they already own in order to get a little of what they actually want.
Also, while I was saddened by the news about Final Sacrifice as well, I guess we can all at least be glad that it was a season 9 episode and so there are likely very many high quality TV recorded copies floating around out there. Sadly that can’t be said about many of the earlier MST episodes. I personally would love to get a better copy of Moon Zero Two, but it was a first season ep so it’s unlikely that there even is a better fan recorded version out there, and since the movie is owned by Warner Bros. I don’t see the episode being released on DVD any time soon.
Good Q & A with Jordan Fields. When I heard that Shout! Factory was getting the MST3K rights I had no worries whatsoever. Shout! has done a great job with the SCTV box sets, the “Freaks and Geeks” box sets (including the fabulous “yearbook” edition) and continue to do so with things like “TV Funhouse”. They are a good company and I am glad they appreciate and treasure MST3K as much as all of us who come to this site do. I don’t expect any less effort from Shout! in the future.
somehow i get the feeling Shout is going to run out of new episodes very quickly… what with PD not really been PD and all.
I think the Lipperts and Season 3 titles will be the last of the batch to get released. I originally thought Crawling Eye would be on Volume 16 but there is the Wade Williams factor so now I have my doubts. I am starting to think that the Corpse Vanishes will be the next Season 1 PD coming to us with a couple of non PD or easy to license titles for V. 16. I expect the scifi episodes to be back in Volume 16 as well.
Id love to be part of a petition for Lippert movies and Final Sacrifice & having them uncut on a Side B DVD would be a great idea..
I still wish he addressed Season 3…
I like Shout Factory even better now. Jordan and Brian both seem to love the show and are doing everything they can to get every episode possible out to us. Thanks and keep up the good no make that great work. :grin:
Certain KTMA episodes, with some editing, could be just as strong as the Season One episodes thaqt they have been working with recently, and it would be such a shame to have it as an extra when a true episode is an hour and a half, and that is how I see many Season K episodes … true episodes.
A guide of potential KTMA episodes would is in order …
Episode – K06; Gamera vs. Gaos
S.3? – Yes
Seen? – Not by me.
Impression – Probably boring, but I’d like to think of the Gamera KTMAs as being funny, although this one is probably the worst.
Episode – K07; Gamera vs. Zigra
S.3? – Yes
Seen? – Not by me.
Impression – Much better than K06.
Episode – K08; Gamera vs. Guiron
S.3? – Yes
Seen? – Not by me.
Impression – Good, I’d think.
Episode – K09; Phase IV
S.3? – No
Seen? – Yes
Impression – A few missed obvious jokes, but good enough …
Edits – A few awkward silences towards the beginning and the end of this movie, but the bulk of it are good indeed.
Episode – K12; Fugitive Alien
S.3? – Yes
Seen? – Yes
Impression – Good episode – especially considering it was just 2 characters in the theater, not a full 3 …
Edits – Throughout the episode.
Episode – K13; SST Deathflight
S.3? – No
Seen? – Yes – although I missed the end.
Impression – Eh … but it’s supposedly the best KTMA episode …
Edits – Thoroughly throughout the film and at the beginning where they are just highlighting the celebrities … hopefully it would be Season One comparable …
Episode – K16; City on Fire
S.3? – No
Seen? – Rough, but a fair amount
Impression – I didn’t like the material.
Edits – Lightly throughout.
Episode – K19; Hangar 18
S.3? – No
Seen? – Yes
Impression – Pretty good indeed, but it doesn’t have an intro …
Edits – Certain areas need a bit of work, but largely Season One grade.
Episode – K20; The Last Chase
S.3? – No
Seen? – Yes
Impression – Times in which the riffing wasn’t active, the movie was quite watchable.
Edits – Much of it in the first half.
Episode – K21; Legend of the Dinosaur
S.3? – No – However, it’s a Japanese movie!
Seen? – Yes
Impression – Similar to K12; Fugitive Alien, too manymusic-jokes.
Edits – Awkward silence and maybe even a few lame jokes, including Tom Servo calling Joel ‘Robinson’ after the laugh-y breakdown …
Whoops, I mean Hodgson, not Robinson …
The day they start releasing box sets with “new” episodes and “re-releases” of Rhino episodes is the day I stop buying new copies. Because I’m a completist I’ll probably still buy them but off the used market which means Shout Factory would see none of my money. I hope they take this to heart.
(Yes I’m willing to make an exception for out of print stuff. Then again when Rhino did a volume 10.2 I was surprised they never did a 9.2.)
Thanks for the answers! Great news about the chapter stops, and a fine compromise regarding scene selections. I would much rather see proper chapter stops at the expense of scene selections. Concerning copyrights, it’s a shame some company or corporation holds the rights to certain MSTied films yet can’t be located nor will give permission to release those films, especially when they do nothing at all with those rights. In all honestly, what person on earth would desire to see ‘The Final Sacrifice’ other than an MST3K fan, and what will the license holder do with those rights? If it’s Mr. Greidanus himself, maybe he could use that money from MST3K pay the actors that he never payed for making the film. Some people have no sense of humor about themselves yet a very inflated sense of their own “artistic” vision. Sad that they won’t bend to an audience that considers their awful film a favorite in one sense or another. Oh well, we always have our video-taped versions!
Just one more thing; I had to laugh out loud about the comment that the late, great Ray Dennis Steckler went on a curse-laden tirade(implied one, anyway) when MST3K was mentioned. I give the guy credit for making a 45-year career(he was apparently working on a follow-up to ‘Mixed Up Zombies’ at the time of his death in Jan. 2009) out of nothing, but it is a little hard to understand his anger towards MST3K. This is a guy who wrote, produced, and directed porn(not that I have anything against porn) under the name “Cindy Lou Sutters” and made films under at least 15 different aliases, so he couldn’t have been that proud of his work. In the spirit of veracity, it’s amazing that people can churn out crap for nearly 50 years and still have the audacity to get upset over what millions consider a brilliant show in MST3K, making fun of their work. I give credit to guys like Joe Estevez and Greydon Clark(although he certainly seemed to think ‘Final Justice’ was actually a good film) who can appreciate MST3K, laugh at themselves, and appreciate the fact that they make a living in Grade-Z film fare.
You people are nuts! I’d throw the biggest MSTie hissy fit if Shout FINALLY released a KTMA episode and it was edited. They are what they are. To edit it down would be insane.
I’ll second what The Professor said: no edits to the KTMA episodes.
To edit the KTMA episodes would be like editing any of the other episodes just because they have a few slow spots here and there – it shouldn’t be done under any circumstances.
To say that KTMA episodes aren’t what we “remember and love” might be fair. However, MSTies also should already realize that they’re not the strongest episodes and still want them for a historical perspective.
If it doesn’t make business sense to include them in boxsets, perhaps release them individually or in 2-episode packs available online only. That way you won’t sour retail-shopping casual fans’ opinion of the show while still making them available to those who are interested enough to seek them out.
I applaud this frank Q&A. My thoughts:
I applaud a letter-writing campaign to the owners of “The Final Sacrifice” and whatever other hold-outs we can locate. Many of these people might just not understand what the heck MST3K is or even know a movie that they own the rights to today was on the show ten, fifteen, twenty years ago.
I’m against re-releasing episodes that Rhino already covered but if SF got the rights to “Beast of Yucca Flats” and released a nicely-produced Coleman Francis Trilogy DVD with “SkyDivers” & “Red Zone Cuba” I would probably buy that.
Hate to say it, I’m fascinated by the KTMA episodes as insight into the evolution of the show, but for my money I’d rather have a Comedy Central or Sci-Fi era episode released.
Yeah, Comedy Channel/Central and Sci-Fi Channel episodes first, then KTMA. It probably would be interesting to see some KTMA episodes. However, I’ll take Joel’s word for it and worry about seeing them.
#69 – The KTMA episodes, in order to be taken seriously @ all, need to be edited of the long, aching silences in which nobody says a single thing. It would be a total waste of D.V.D. alloy in order to release a KTMA episode uncut.
& … you know, Shout Factory’s representative talked about consumer discontent in a rudimentary episode being released — but if you release a show in which, really, only 1/2 the show has any riffing in it what-so-ever (and we are talking about the good episodes,here) then there really will be a consumer backlash! The idea is to release good material into the market, not bad stuff. I’m sure certain KTMAs can make the grade — but they need to feel like real episodes, not the filmography threshhold that KTMA episodes can easily be.
@Smogmonster #73+74
Your ideas about how to handle KTMA episodes are IDIOTIC. How are they supposed to edit them? Those bits where there aren’t any riffs? Well guess what, during those “long, aching silences in which nobody says a single thing” there is still a movie playing! You can’t just edit out the bits with no riffs or the episode becomes even less viewable since the films become impossible to follow. It’s your problem if you have such a short attention span that you need riffs every ten seconds.
And I’d also like to remind you that the KTMA episodes do “feel like real episodes”, because they ARE real episodes. Yes they are different. They are early, rough, and experiental. BUT THAT IS THEIR MAJOR APPEAL TO MST FANS. Can you imagine how excited people would be if they announced they were actually releasing the first three “lost” KTMA episodes on DVD, and how pissed off it would make them if they came out and were edited in the ways you describe? I’d rather never get any official DVDs of the KTMA episodes, including the lost episodes, than get the bastardized “best of” clip shows you seem to be fantasizing about. Yes they aren’t as good as the later “real” episodes. Get over it. The only reason most MST fans actually care about them at all is because they represent the history of the show, and what you are suggesting isn’t improving them it’s sanitizing and destroying that history. I guess we should all also be insisting that Shout never release any first season episodes unless they “edit” them to make them “better”, or get Joel Trace and Josh to rerecord newer, better riffs for a George Lucas style Special Edition. What you are suggesting is completely disrespectful to the history of MST.
First time poster, but been reading this site for some time and a MST3K fan since the Mike/SciFi era.
I guess I missed when questions were being submitted, but I’m certainly glad the closed-captioning was brought up, even if the answer wasn’t that positive. I often have trouble understanding dialogue in regular movies, and when you add in the riffing, it gets very hard to understand *any* dialogue. On top of that, we also have a toddler in the house and subtitles or CC is absolutely essential either when he’s asleep so we can keep the volume down, or when he’s awake but making his own noise.
When the rights to MST3K changed hands last year, this was the biggest thing I was hoping for, I honestly gave not a single thought to any sort of extras beyond CC/subtitles. Please do whatever you can to include them on any future releases. When I picked up Universal’s recent re-release of The Movie, it was mainly for the 16×9 enhancement, but to discover the subtitles on that disc was a major bonus.
As an aside, wouldn’t there have been closed-captioning already done when these episodes were originally broadcast on Comedy Central or SciFi? Why can’t those be used?
thanks for all the answers though, I do love the new volume numbering, and look forward to seeing the episode numbers.
And I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing some KTMA episodes, I came to MSTie-dom fairly late (last few seasons on SciFi), but I’ve picked most of the DVDs (I only need Shout’s first one and the newly announced one) and have enjoyed filling in the gaps in my MSTie viewing history. And I would prefer them unedited, warts and all.
#75
Well said, Uncle Bill.
Keeping the episodes unedited would be vital to appreciating the evolution of the show.
To chop out segments of the episodes would be a grave disservice to the fans.
Uncle Bill: Many of the KTMA episodes riff the full movie and go over feature-length time, so if Shout Factory were to put them out as standard episodes, they’d edit stuff out anyway for contract reasons, probably something saying ‘Every episode to be released will be 90 minutes long…’
As for the episodes getting butchered,keep in mind that the KTMA episodes, like the rest of the series, are B-Movies, too. Cut some of it out. Nobody is going to miss a few ants from Phase IV or badly lit apartment scenes with Lee Majors, or an extra 5 minutes here & there, and it would surely not be a clip-show, that’s the type of thing we already have had with the Scrapbook. Plus, if we get it down to a more acceptable S.1 level, I’m sure plots will largely remain intact. & how is it a ‘fantasy’ to edit it a bit to look better? Plenty of things are edited in the biz, especially MST3K. Just watch the trailer they included in Secret Agent Super Dragon — it looks like a totally different movie than what was riffed, with more action and intrigue than what we got.
Besides, who’s doing the fantasizing, anyhow, Uncle Bill? One of the reasons that they will not release a KTMA episode is because they aren’t ‘as good’ as future episodes. The whole idea is to hope they see that something is there to give the audience as a feature presentation – we are never going to get a full-length, uncut, KTMA episode from Shout Factory, but I don’t want that, anyway. I’ll gladly take an episode that they reformatted to fit in with future episodes, and it would be much better than keeping the whole entire season in limbo. An episode that will feel just as sloppy as in Minneapolis would wear away quickly, and lots of people will return it who aren’t hard-core MSTies.
95% of the good parts would still be there, and it would be funny and official seeming > fan pipe-dream of getting a full, uncut episode, that isn’t funny, and 95% returned.
To Scott, #76. I don’t think any of the Comedy Central episodes were ever closed captioned in the first place. It wasn’t until later in the 1990’s (I think) that laws were passed mandating closed captioning–and even those were vague. I don’t know that they even applied to cable channels, and only stipulated that like 90% of programming from a channel had to be captioned (and for such a complicated-to-caption show like MST, I’m sure the Comedy Channel wouldn’t have bothered). I noticed when I was copying my taped episodes to DVD that there was at least one Sci-Fi Channel episode that had a closed captioning symbol in the corner of the screen during the opening credits, but when I tried the tape on my TV with the closed captioning on, nothing came up. The closed captioning code should have still shown up on the taped version, but nothing did. And none of the other episodes I have taped showed the CC icon. I think it was just a mistake somewhere. Does anyone else have other info about this? Did Sci-Fi truly caption any episodes?
I’d also gladly buy DVDs of every uncut KTMA episode, but since I consider ‘Weekend’ my favorite french film, my boredom tolerance is slightly higher than the average joe’s. (Hell, I might actually be tad autistic)
I think MSTAnon’s idea in #70 for only selling KTMA’s via the internet or some other more direct marketing bears further consideration, since we can all agree those episodes have far more niche appeal. I do realize that paying for movie rights just for such a limited release could be totally cost-ineffective, but someone should still crunch the hypothetical numbers. I wish JF had answered my question about any additional legal hurdles posed by the KTMA connection (seperate from specific movies). Does someone out there still have a say in the rights to something specifically designed to air on a local TV station that’s been dead for well over a decade, besides those who actually produced it? I haven’t the foggiest, but would like to have it, very much.
And Hedorah, I think your assumption that any KTMAs would spark mass returns is a bit exaggerated. Say the rights to one KTMA-only ep fell right into Shout!’s lap, so they made it the fourth feature in a box with 3 eps from seasons 2-10, just as an experiment since the ol’ network-show well’s gotta’ run dry sometime; Do you seriously think anyone would return the whole set solely because “That ONE show was like their home-#@$%ing-movies!”, or that any casual fans would pass up future sets based on that? I realize they have to assume each new set attracts some new viewers, but I also think that when people shell out money for DVDs, they expect the content to be as uncut as possible, warts-and-all. That’s not just my personal anti-bastardization feeling resonating with Uncle Bill’s (and hopefully a LOT of this board’s). It only makes sense to release them totally uncut, or leave any KTMA content at bare minimum scrapbook/outtake levels that no one in the A.D.D. generation could even bitch about.
I don’t ask rhetorical questions, so someone please answer. It’s worth bouncing every idea off as many people as possible before we just give up on the KTMA episodes. Any sets that contained a single one of the first ‘lost’ shows as a feature/disc would see a surge in sales that would at least counter any apathy for season zero. Just imagine a volume with the tag:
“COMPLETELY UNSEEN for over 20 YEARS! RELEASED BECAUSE THE FANS DEMANDED IT! THE MAIDEN VOYAGES of MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000!”
Now THAT would get at least as much press as the 20th Anniversary set, if not more without any unlucky 13’s jynxing it. And no publicity is bad publicity.
Well, within the law.
#79 Any closed captioning was probably on the broadcast video master of the movies being used on the show.
None of the captioning signal would likely make it through once the movie was part of an episode, shadowrama effects and all.
I did once see a caption pop up on the stinger of Diabolik though!
Not every episode runs exactly 90 minutes long. Season One tends to run a good 7 minutes or so longer than Season 10. I really don’t understand your fascination with editing KTMA episodes. Season one can have just as many long periods of silence as any KTMA but no one thinks of editing those. Robot V.S. The Aztec Mummy is, in my opinion, one of the worst episodes in the history of MST3K and THAT’S getting a full uncut release (as it should). Remember, for a while, the Brains didn’t want us to see Season One just as much as KTMA…
Okay, #82, I watched the whole episode Robot vs. The Aztec Mummy, and I think the movie riffing is quite good for a Season One episode. The problem is that they got bored with the movie half-way through. That happens in lots and lots of MST3K episodes. However, the host segments really aren’t good … the demon dogs don’t look slightly reminiscent of dogs.
It really is an insulting idea that when an episode gets slow it should be chopped out. And a “true” episode is 90 min and ONLY 90 min? Apparently when they were filming the KTMA stuff it wasn’t. Or maybe they just didn’t know your rules back then. As for me, the KTMA eps are mainly to see what this show was like at the beginning, not to see a tight 90 minutes of wall to wall riffing. Plainly, during the early episodes the riffing wasn’t the same (or as good for me) as in later seasons. I think watching the film is as integral a part of MST as the riffing is. I know they edit the films for various reasons in most episodes, but if that’s the way they made them for KTMA, I don’t think they should be cut.
@#78 Smogmonster
Okay obviously you are the actual real Smog Monster who came to Earth from outer space and fought Godzilla, because little of what you say would make sense to any rational person or monster who actually comes from this planet.
Firstly, there is absolutely no reason what so ever to assume that the KTMA episodes would have to be cut down to 90 minutes for “contract reasons”. That’s an absurd theory based on nothing (except possibly your own naiveté). The DVD format isn’t limited to 90 minutes, and there is absolutely no reason that any contracts between Best Brains, Shout Factory, or any of the films rights holders would require any editing of any kind when it comes to already existing episodes of the show.
Secondly, even if the imaginary scenario you cooked up about people being dissatisfied with the unedited KTMA DVDs and returning them somehow actually COULD happen (which it couldn’t, since you typically can’t just return any DVD you buy simply because you don’t like it) I don’t see where you get this idea that there are all these average people who don’t really care that much about MST who are for some reason buying the DVDs en masse, and wouldn’t already know what to expect from them. It’s probably far more realistic to say that 95% (I’d even go as far as 99%)of the people who would buy a DVD of a KTMA episode would do so exactly BECAUSE it was a DVD of a KTMA episode. Anyone who actually still cares enough about MST to buy ANY MST DVD most likely has either already seen at least some of the KTMA episodes, or at least has heard enough about them by now to know have an idea of what they should expect from them. There definitely wouldn’t be this overwhelming number of shocked, MST-ignorant consumers storming their local shops and demanding that they throw away their standard returns policies and give them their money back. At least not in this reality.
All this nonsense about the DVDs not selling enough unless they were edited, or Shout being contractually obligated to edit them for some unrealistic reason is just desperate straw grabbing to try and justify your real, and very selfish reason for WANTING the episodes cut down. You simply don’t like them. But instead of doing the reasonable thing of just ignoring what you don’t like, you’d want them to be altered into something different just so that you might like them more. And you don’t care if it would mean disrespecting the show and it’s history, and disappointing all of the other MST fans who would be absolutely thrilled to see any of the real KTMA episodes released. Getting edited versions of the episodes on DVD would be FAR WORSE then not getting them on DVD at all. The moment any of your bastardized Special Edition versions came out the chances of getting the REAL versions on DVD someday would drop to none.
@ #83 Smogmonster
“…the demon dogs don’t look slightly reminiscent of dogs.”
I’m simply shaking my head at that statement.
I guess it’s hard for someone who is just now seeing first season episodes for the first time to have the same appreciation for the show as the people who have been watching it since those episodes were new. That statement shows that the original charm of the show that captured so many of us early viewers (the creative low budget look and feel, and the way that Joel and everyone else was obviously just as aware of it as anyone else) is lost on you. To you it’s probably just the “cheap” or “bad” stuff they had to do before they had a big enough budget to do it better. No wonder you can’t stand the style of the KTMA episodes. It’s probably hard enough for you to watch the early Comedy Central seasons without thinking they should fire up the editing machine. I can’t imagine why the first thing you’d think about the “Demon Dogs” was that they didn’t look like dogs. I didn’t know that there was a specific way that made up space monsters called “Demon Dogs” were supposed to look. Incidentally they were actually an old He-man toy painted red. I had that toy when I was a kid, so I laughed very hard the first time I saw that segment (which was back when they were showing the first season as reruns on Friday mornings while the second season was first on).
If they do manage to get the rights to the KTMA episodes they should release them uncut. It’s that simple. Editing anything from it’s original director (or creative team) approved form isn’t a true representation of what that media is.
With that said, I would rather have Shout! Factory focus on getting us CC or Sci-fi years shows. I would still buy a box set that had a KTMA episode in it, but I would probably avoid a box set of nothing but KTMA episodes. If BB feels that the KTMA episodes aren’t a good representation of the show, I respect that decision. If they change thier minds, I respect that too.
My big wish is for an all Russo-Finnish boxset. It’s time for all of us to get some Sampo on DVD! :)
The people who think that if a KTMA episode gets released it will be full & uncomplete don’t get why the higher-ups have no intention on putting out KTMA material – because it is just plainly horrible programming that goes against the whole theme of making fun of a movie since large portions of the worst episodes go unriffed completely. It would never get released as a main-feature D.V.D., but when Fields says that they could put it in as an extra … well that just scares the dickens out of me, because I really, really want them to one day put out a KTMA episode as the main feature of a box-set. They just will never, ever do that, and I don’t blame them. They just aren’t good enough for anybody but the hardest fans out there. They need to take the best episodes of KTMA, take out useless parts, and make the episode the main feature. The nostalgia of watching silhouettes watch a movie just doesn’t exist for most people. & I don’t think that most people know what to expect before watching a KTMA episode because nobody could ever expect something with a brand name on it could ever be as bad as it was in Minnesota.
Also, kind of paralleling my point is how bad the demon dogs were … Even an early episode such as show # 102 could be as bad as to call skeleton-toys with micky-mouse heads demon aliens, but they did it then … people have a lot to learn, I take …
Every last frame of every MST episode is sacred. Anything less than a complete, pristine, unedited episode is unacceptable…and that includes the KTMA eps!
NO EDITING ALLOWED!
:wink:
No Smoggy I think you just don’t get it that the only way we would WANT the KTMA episodes released is full and complete. We aren’t so desperate to get them that we would want to see them bastardized as you are suggesting. That’s worse than not getting them at all. We all perfectly understand that the KTMA episodes are crude and only really valuable as examples of their early exploration into what this new type of show they created was capable of, and that they are not as enjoyable as the later episodes. We understand that as they are it’s highly unlikely they will ever be released, it’s just that we prefer that fate to having them altered in the way you suggest. So you don’t have some kind of brilliant revelatory knowledge about the various attitudes towards the KTMA episodes that you need to share with us. I understand everything you are saying, and I have no realistic hopes of any KTMA episodes ever being released exactly because I understand that as far as entertainment value goes they are inferior to the later seasons, and only hold any true value to people who are interested in, and respect the history of the show. I just find the idea of editing any of those episodes in an attempt to artificially mold them into some new form to be reprehensible. I only care about seeing them at all because I’m interested in what they really are, and because I love the show and love seeing how it developed. I’m not interested in seeing them at all if they are altered in any way. I don’t care that they are different and feel a little odd relative to what the show became later. I don’t care about ever seeing them as a “main feature” on a DVD if it would mean they were being altered in any way. And I can’t imagine why the idea of them being put in sets as extra features scares you, but the idea of them being edited and changed is just super terrific.
As for your further comments about the Demon Dogs I will just say that it further goes to show how you just don’t understand what the show actually was back in those early days. This is one of the few times I would ever dream of saying this to anyone, but you clearly just don’t get it. If you think that the Demon Dogs being cheap makes the show bad, then you just simply don’t get it. If you think they just spray painted toys to use as aliens because they were untalented, or cheap, or lazy, or not creative then you don’t get it. In fact I’d say that the show lost a little bit of the charm it had when they got too fancy with their effects. I still loved the later seasons with Mike, but during the Joel years my favorite parts were the host segments. After Joel left and especially after the move to Sci-fi the show changed. I still liked the show a lot because of the movie segments, but the host segments were never as much fun. Thats because it didn’t have as much of that feeling of crude, seat of their pants creativity that I loved so much during the Joel era. And again if you began by watching the later episodes of the show, and are only seeing the early ones for the first time now on DVD I can easily see why you don’t get it. I had all the years the show was on to grow and develop along with it. I loved the things that you think make those early episodes “bad”. They were one of the reasons I became such a fervent fan of the show almost instantly. If you have never seen those older episode until now then you aren’t going to have the same kind of reaction. But you have to understand that many people who have loved the show since early on aren’t going to see those things as flaws, but rather as a major part of the creative and comic genius that made them fall in love with the show to begin with. We are now getting to the point where an entire generation of Star Wars fans is going to grow up loving the big flashy prequels, and seeing the original trilogy as “bad”, or at the very least flawed, just because they don’t have the same kind of flashy effects. They aren’t going to understand why all the old fogies think the original trilogy is so great and don’t like the super awesome “first three” movies as much. They won’t understand that we grew up loving those movies despite what they see as flaws, or maybe even BECAUSE of those things. That those early films, while not as visually impressive (or I would argue visually overpowering) as the later ones had a heart and soul that just wasn’t captured well enough in the flashy yet more shallow newcomers. And those of that new generation DEFINITELY won’t get why we love the original unaltered, even more “bad/flawed” versions of those movies so much more than the “improved” Special Editions. But some bright ones might at least begin to look at it from a different perspective, and to understand. I grew up watching and loving Star Trek The Next Generation, and thinking the original Star Trek was kind of goofy and dull, and not giving it much of a chance. But as I got older I watched it more and more, and I started to not only look beyond what I used to see as flaws (bad sets/effects/acting etc.), but I actually grew to appreciate and love some of those things about the show because it made it such an amazing record of the time it was made. That allowed me to see the show in a different light and actually learn to appreciate how good it really was, just how creative and groundbreaking it was for it’s time. And I realized that even though I grew up loving the arguably “improved” newer version I could at least imagine how much I would have absolutely loved the original had I been around when it was first on. And that is why I see the new reworked special editions of the original Star Trek as just as pointless as your KTMA editing idea. Learn to appreciate the thing for what it is, or just leave it the hell alone.
Also I do realize exactly how über-nerdy it is to write a comment on an MST3000 fan website and also talking about how much I love Star Wars and Star Trek. I’ll just toss Doctor Who and Babylon 5 in there for good measure :)
# 89 –
Don’t let luvy-duvy fan logic get in the way of what we all know would be the best option — preserving the best KTMA episodes as watchable episodes while not including parts in which all they do is **watch** the movie. It’s not butchering the movie to take the dull parts out … the purpose of the KTMA episodes, like future episodes, were to make fun of lame movies. If the KTMA episodes were to go on DVD, that aspect gets enhanced by taking out a few lame parts of the show in which – due to a lack of scripting and directing – could not make fun of the movie like they could have.
The spirit of the KTMA episodes want to live on as the feature presentation and if they could speak, surely, they would tell you that they’d want to be edited out of parts where their goal – to make fun of a movie – were not carried out successfully, and they would NOT want to be relegated as merely extra side-parts. They want to entertain and they want to be recognized as premier-grade which some episodes are capable of. How is that wrong, bastardization, butchering, etc., had-core-type fans? That they can live on in a corporate atmosphere that would never allow rudimentary material to be presented to the public – nor should it? Or that some ultra-lame parts of the episode be taken out so that the audience can enjoy the show, because DVDs should never be the subject to mediocre excriment that only would serve the fans that cower in the shadow of a nieve belief that the worst parts of an entertainment faculty be preserved (wtf ?)
As far as the Demon Dogs go – you were the one that stated that Robot vs. the Aztec Mummy was the worst episode … I obliged and said that the host segments, not the riffing made it the worst episode. I don’t know what was wrong with the riffing – they tried their best to make it through the movie intact, but the host segments — another example in which luvy-duvy hard-core fan logic came into play — were deffended, yet the MST3K creators must have agreed with me because Demon Dogs were never given that much time in an episode ever again …
Smog Monster – I’d edit the dull and unimportant portions of your posts if I could, but wouldn’t be left with much I’m afraid. If you need to shop this crappy idea of yours around, why not go to the Reader’s Digest site and see if they’d be intersted in doing some Reader’s Digest Condensed MS3 discs. Chances are they’d think your idea sucks, too. Now, why not go to your local library and rip pages out of books that you find boring instead. Maybe join the MPAA?
I said Robot Monster was the worst episode, Smog Monster, not Uncle Bill. And your idea is stupid. Just trust me on this one.
So much arguing over a show that has been dead for nearly a decade. Cant we all agree that we are fans and love the show and not fight amongst our selves – the fan base ?
For what it is worth, the KTMA shows to me were not that good, but are interesting to watch in terms of seeing the roots of the show. KTMA is a part of the history of the show and without it there would have never been a Comedy Central era. I would not mind having them on sets in their entirety for the sake of getting rid of crummy VHS tapes out there. At some point Shout will need to look for episodes that they can get the rights to because all the PD’s will be used up. That being said getting rights to KTMA titles might or might not be easy ( the Gamera movies). I think it would be neat to have a set with a KTMA episode blended in with the other Mike and Joel episodes. I cant speak for every fan, but I cant imagine it hurting sales, at least no worse than a set that a fan passed on that contained a bevy of episodes he or she didnt want. Imagine a set with Puma Man, a popular Joel episode, a solid Mike episode and a KTMA episode…
It sounds good to me.. (my opinion only)
Mr. Fields is politely and professionally covering for his licensor. Jim Mallon does not want the KTMA episodes released on DVD. End of story.
If he ever changed his mind Shout Factory would release a set of KTMA episodes so fast it would make your head spin.
thats also true ! :razz:
It looks like the KTMA season is getting Gyp’ed.
It would be nice if they released a few of the KTMA episodes, even if it was only 1 every 5 or 6 sets.
I hope that if there is a chance of seeing any KTMA episodes that Shout! Factory doesn’t read Smog Monster’s posts.
Wow- the animosoty on this thread is really out of hand. I’d probably buy the KTMA episodes also, but it is nothing to get worked up about. It is certainly nothing to declare “your idea is stupid” to someone with an opinion you disagree with over.
“Repeat to yourself it’s just a show, I should really just relax.”
It is certainly nothing to declare “your idea is stupid” to someone with an opinion you disagree with over.
Normally I agree with such sentiments, but usually that’s when the idea being expressed is “your opinions are stupid”. This is an actual business idea that Smog Monster seems to think is valid. Most people are expressing *their* opinion that his idea is stupid because…well…his idea is stupid.
“I should really just relax” can’t wash away *every* disagreement.