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Weekend Discussion Thread: Best and Worst of Season 11Well, we are at last done with season 11 … or ARE we??
I want to kind of wrap up the Netflix season and I will, perhaps over several weeks. However, once again, if YOU have topic ideas for threads (about season 11 or otherwise), I am once again accepting them at msampo at aol dot com. This week’s topic: Your most favorite episode of season 11, and your least favorite, and why. And as a bonus: SHOULD Netflix greenlight season 12? This is pass/fail here: yes or no. Have at it! 105 Replies to “Weekend Discussion Thread: Best and Worst of Season 11”Commenting at Satellite News
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Not being a film or tv critic it seems that a detailed analysis on my part would be a bit self indulgent, but as a fan I can say that I did enjoy season eleven and am confident that all the episodes will bear up under repeated viewings. Netflix, you would be making a sound investment in my opinion.
Favorite: Cry Wilderness. Least fave is probably At The Earth’s Core, just a sour note to end on.
After re-watching the season: No. I initially wanted a renewal to see if they could improve on what worked, but I can’t really see that happening (I actually felt the episodes got worse as they went with a few exceptions) and it just feels pointless.
I *would* like the live shows/tours to continue, I think that might be a better future for this incarnation.
This is actually kind of tough. While I thought some shows were better than others, I never really thought of it in terms of “best” or “worst”. For the best one, I guess I’ll go with “Yongary”, since it was a good combination of goofy yet watchable movie and good riffing. For worst, I’ll go with “Reptilicus”, since they hadn’t yet gotten a full handle on the show.
For best celebrity cameo, no contest: Mark Hamill. But I’m biased, since I’ve been a “Star Wars” fan since 1977.
As for a new season, absolutely yes! If Netflix passes, I hope Joel goes to Shout Factory or some other venue. I remember Jim, at ConventioCon II when the show was about to switch networks, said one idea they had was making the episodes and sending them direct to fans like the Book of the Month Club. I’d even go along with that, if all else failed.
I figure this season was almost like a shakedown cruise. While we still had some vets around, most of the cast & crew were new to the series. Also, the production method was new as well. Given that, I didn’t expect an absolute classic from the start. Rather, I thought it’d be like the original show, where they developed it over a season until everything clicked. Well, now that the new crew seems to be comfortable and working well, it’d be a shame to pull the plug. There may still be a few kinks to work out, but I’m still willing to go along with the show.
Unless I’m very much mistaken, that’s from “Dave Allen at Large”. Holy flaming cow, you actually remember that show? I haven’t seen it in many years, since the first wave of Brit-coms hit the States.
(Yep–Haven’t seen it since, but can still quote jokes. I even remember Benny Hill’s dead-on Dave Allen parody, from one of his sketches, but can’t find the YouTube.)
And…she’s not even funny. Her riffs sound like one of the non-BridJo female interns coming in and out of the screening meetings, trying to say “hey, that looks like fun, can I do a riff too?”, and sounding, well, pretty much like one of those riffs WOULD sound from a first-timer who doesn’t get the idea. The fact that that’s exactly what Gypsy seems to be doing in the episodes doesn’t help.
Like the sketch where the Bots switch voices to freak Joel out, there’s no reason to have a Gypsy who sounds like Magic Voice, apart from the tech question of who runs the ship, and if they’re not going to tell us what she’s fetching in and out to do a line–even if it’s supposed to be a first-timer’s one–there’s no reason for it, period.
I was going to explain why this is absolutely correct, but I have a feeling this week’s topic was JUST “Best/worst, Yes/no?”, and sweeping series-wide post-game analyses will be next weekend’s topic.
Should probably save discussions for that, I’ve already used up some good posts.
YES, renew it!
Best:
Carnival Magic
Starcrash
Cry Wilderness
Wizards of the Lost Kingdom I
Worst:
The Land that Time Forgot
At the Earth’s Core
Well, that wasn’t an automatic thing. You had to fill out your Backer Kit. And some people’s names ended up in episode 14, as a last minute addition.
If you still don’t see your name, that’s something to take up with the Kickstarter campaign.
Yes, he can be snide and condescending about the whole spectrum of pop culture. Not just MST3k!
You also had from Frank hysterical political comments that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. They show the black shirt goons in “Warrior of the Lost World ” and one of the guys says “if George Bush had won”. That’s the relatively benign and fairly loved George HW Bush. So no thanks, I’ll pass on turning my crank to Frank. Whatever he was before one look at his Twitter account reveals he has become toxic and bitter. I don’t think the new season needs dozens of easy, lame Trump jokes that are a dime a dozen these days. That’s one thing I liked about the new season, how relatively apolitical it was.
I’m with Kenneth Morgan, above, that it’s hard to say best and worst. It’s also very hard to judge based on one viewing. Who knows how much the feeling about an episode is based on the viewer’s mood that day? Maybe if I watch it again I’ll have a completely different opinion. It will be interesting to analyze the statistics after this thread peters out, but eyeballing what has gone so far it looks pretty random: films seem to be on the “love” and “hate” list in equal numbers. Some of that, I think, is a function of how one watches MST3K. I tend more toward enjoying the bad movie for its own sake, so my sorting doesn’t score the riffing and/or host segments too strongly. Honestly, I mostly don’t even remember it, except in rare circumstances where a line really hits my funny bone.
So with that said, episodes I liked a lot
Yongary. Very stupid monster movie. Good riffs. The collapsing antenna/this is our honeymoon. Dancing Yongary. “Yongary’s coming out.” And the end segment where they anticipate the sequel.
Reptilicus. Has everything that a good stupid monster movie requires. Hot Danish scientist babes. Crowd scenes that look like they are from a parody of a monster movie. And “Every country has a monster.”
Cry Wilderness. This film is amazing in its stupidness. My brain has melted from trying to remember any of it.
Starcrash. What can I say, I have a fondness for preposterous space opera. Marjoe Gortner in his finest performance. David Hasselhoff embarrasses even himself. The robot. Robert Tessier channels Curly Howard. And lots of Caroline Munro.
Episodes I sort of liked.
Wizards of the Lost Kingdom 1. Ridiculous movie with annoying kid, stupid hero, even stupider villains, completely worthless fuzzy sidekick. Really surprised that there wasn’t a Rowsdower riff anywhere. “I wonder if there’s wine on the sun?” would have been gut-busting.
Wizards of the Lost Kingdom 2. Holds up on its own, but should have been held for the next season.
The Loves of Hercules. The riffed direction to the actor during the fight scene with the hydra was fabulous. And the gym membership salesman.
Carnival Magic. I enjoyed this one a bit. I think I liked it better than “Avalanche” because it’s more absurd. “Yes, she’s A girl in A car, but is she THE girl in THE car?”
The Land That Time Forgot. This wasn’t too bad of a move to start with, if you can put yourself into the era that the story came from.
The Time Travelers. Just sort of meh. Not bad enough for my taste. I probably would have liked this movie for real when I was ten.
The Beast of Hollow Mountain. Not sure why this one gets a pass when I relegate Avalanche to the basement. At least it did eventually deliver the much anticipated monster. (OK, Avalanche did, too. Hollow Mountain’s monster was cheesy; Avalanche’s monster was just cheap.) And the characters were doing more interesting things along the way.
At the Earth’s Core. Something of a repeat of TLTLF, but with less spirit.
Episodes I didn’t care much for
Avalanche. Just found the whole thing too boring to be saved. This whole genre of contrived disaster plots wore thin quickly, but not before being beaten into the ground, THEN skewered mercilessly a long time ago. Avalanche certainly deserved the treatment. Maybe I would have enjoyed it more if I had never seen “Airplane.” Or maybe I was just in a bad mood that morning.
The Christmas That Almost Wasn’t. Not much fun to see them beat up such a pathetic target. Same reason I didn’t like “Jack Frost” (Ep. 813) much.
I think I will watch them all again (except maybe TCTAW), and might have a different opinion on the second round.
I sure hope there is a Season 12. Season 11 was worth watching. Whether there should be a season 13 will hinge on whether the creative staff is willing to learn anything from Season 11. One of the most valuable thing they could do is to carefully study the insightful commentary being posted by the brilliant commentators (and that one idiot, ignore him) on Satellite News.
I’ll keep this short.
Best: cry wilderness by a hair but carnival magic, Wizards 2, and loves of Hercules are all top of all time episodes.
Worst: beast of hollow mountain. Decent riffs and great host segments but movie was dull.
Overall season 11 is the best the show has ever had. They got better as the season went on and I have my complaints but really they knocked it out of the park. My fav show is back.
I am hoping we get 100 episodes with Jonah.
i think they improved a bit more during the live tour so folks should take comfort in that if they found the riff pacing a bit too manic.
I think 1101-1114 is a ton better than the first 14 episodes of the scifi era (my first and fav era). Comparing to the early Joel years isn’t really fair but I think the first season of scifi era is fair game. I would have bailed on the show by the 8th scifi black and white film with the stroke induced crow and bobo’s entrance to the show… Thankfully they they were allowed to make 20 or so episodes that first season and everything clicked by the end.. So I just hope that even season 11 naysayers give future seasons a chance. I truly believe they are just getting started and the best is yet to come.
Mark my words: The show is not getting a Season 12, and the announcement is being delayed until after the tour is over to prevent even more underwhelming ticket sales (no sold-out shows, front-row tickets at fire sale prices, and two cities entirely cancelled). Where else would you announce a Season 12 renewal besides San Diego Comic-Con? The new Castlevania series on Netflix was notified of renewal the very same day it premiered. By this point, we’re almost four months past the debut of the new MST3k, and you mean to tell me that neither Joel nor Netflix know if it’s getting renewed yet? Give me a break. On top of that, check out these really strange quotes from Joel in this July 20, 2017 interview with the Phoenix New Times:
PNT: Well, let me ask the next logical question: There’s going to be a second season of the show on Netflix?
Joel: Uh … yeah. Hopefully.
PNT: When will y’all find out about that?
Joel: Uh … I don’t know. We’re just working on it right now. We’re talking to [Netflix] right now. So hopefully we’ll know soon, but I couldn’t tell you. I don’t know exactly when that we’ll be able to announce it. And, besides, they like to be the ones to announce it, anyway.
PNT: As someone who’s been a longtime fan of the show, it just seems like the sword of cancellation has always hung over MST3K, no matter what medium or channel it’s been on. Is that just part of the frustration of doing a show like this?
Joel: Well, I think it’s the same thing every TV show that’s ever been made lives with. We’ve been really lucky, we’ve done 11 seasons and over 200 episodes, so we’ve had a really nice long life. But, yeah, it’s possible, maybe, it’s real possible that some people maybe get a two-season deal, but I always feel like everyone else is kind of going from season to season. You gotta sing for your supper in TV and it’s all predicated on how many people are watching and if the person distributing it thinks if you’re drawing enough audience.
PNT: Are y’all worried about not coming back? Because Netflix isn’t necessarily renewing its cult hits, like Sense8, for instance.
Joel: I don’t know. I think the Kickstarter was such a good, healthy thing for us to kind of demonstrate that the backers really care and that they’re willing to throw in. And part of this, too, is just making the brand healthy again, so that’s why we’re doing the live tour. Movie-riffing works in a lot of different ways, fortunately, so we’re just going to start experimenting with that. It was kind of cool, because this is like spring training for movie-riffing while we’re waiting. And after we made those 14 episodes, we went right to work on these and kept the writing staff in practice and kept the performers working on this show. So I’m just looking at a way to keep the brand healthy and keep it moving as much as possible. And some things you just can’t control. So it’s just like everything, there’s always liabilities, I guess.
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arts/mystery-science-theater-3000-joel-hodgson-interview-9513951
It seems really odd that Joel is so non-committal about the Season 12 renewal, and it’s also hard to believe that he’s as out-of-the-loop as he’s letting on. The last paragraph seems to strike the reality of what’s happening here: “making the brand healthy again”. The sale to Shout! Factory, the tour, the licensing and merchandising opportunities, and the gobs of interviews are all laying the groundwork for a post-Netflix MST3k. Could we be looking at MST3k morphing into a Cinematic Titanic-esque tour experience or Rifftrax video-on-demand-type entity, or maybe both? One thing is for certain: Joel is going to keep MST3k alive in one way or another.
I’m not concerned. I participated, and I’m proud of that. And if there’s a new Kickstarter for a Season 12, I’m doing my part.
Okay, I have to give credit for their ability to avoid the political situation for the most part. But considering what Frank is attacking, can you blame him for getting bitter?
Wow. A lot more negativity than I would’ve expected around here. Oh well.
Most favorite episode of season 11: Avalanche. It’s like ‘City on Fire’ in all the right ways: Lots of semi-famous actors in a once-ubiquitous, but now quite-odd-seeming movie format. The movie is competently executed common-denominator fare, but what’s the point of it?
Close second: Time Travelers, especially for the robot repair room scene and the odd flirting/dating stuff. Great fodder, well-riffed.
Least favorite: Cry Wilderness. Gave it a go, but I couldn’t find anything to keep me interested.
Disclaimer: I have only seen three complete episodes, plus about 30 min of Cry Wilderness. (I just don’t have much time to sit in front of a TV these days.)
As a bonus: SHOULD Netflix greenlight season 12? YES! By the time they get around to making it, I should be finishing up Season 11.
Like earlier seasons, my favorites were movies that I liked without being riffed. Reptilicus, Time Travelers, Yongary
Worst: Carnival Magic, The Christmas that Almost Wasn’t
Well, back in the day George HW Bush was a Nazi to Frank. So no, I don’t really trust his political judgement. Our country is essentially 50/50 and has been for a while. That’s why I’m always a little puzzled when people are surprised that there are conservatives who watch the show. It’s also why I appreciated the Sci fi era. They took shots as always at Republicans but without Frank they’d also take more than a few at the Clintons.
Favorite – Avalanche
Least Favorite – Wizards of the Lost World II
Season 12: Go for it. If Joel was honest int that the show costs 350-400K an episode to produce…if nothing else it’s great financial sense. I can’t think of too many situations where a network – streaming or otherwise – can get 90-plus minutes of (arguably) original scripted programming for 350K. Actually I’d love to see the guys be allowed to take a crack at some of the movies Adam Sandler is producing for Netflix.
Well, I didn’t contribute to the Kickstarter because I only wanted one season. Yes, I do want a season 12, but I hope they don’t have any more celebrity cameos. They seemed like a waste of money/resources/time. I can safely guess that they were there to create a broader appeal outside of MSTies. I hope Netflix can commit to two seasons. That would allow everyone working on the show to think ahead, maybe resulting a better season 12 and 13.
Such a sensitive little flower! In that same episode there’s a shot of some rough, hillbilly looking goons and Joel chimes in “It’s Clinton’s new cabinet!” But lob a little jab at one of your conservative figures and it’s instant WAH WAH WAH.
S12? Yes please. I quite enjoyed S11 and am looking forward to rewatching it on Blu-ray. I imagine things can only go up from here.
And I DO hope there’s an S12, because the announcement that Volume 39 is probably the last batch of original eps Shout will release makes me a little sad. The more or less steady release of first Rhino, then Shout MST sets over the years has, I think, helped keep interest in the show alive.
Anyway,
Favorite S11 ep? Probably Carnival Magic. It was magical!
Worst? The Christmas That ZZzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Also, I’m amused to see George H.W. Bush referred to in this thread as a well-liked figure. At the time (early 90s), Bush was very much scorned on both the right and left. Any Bush love now felt (and, in the age of Trump, even Nixon starts to look MUCH better than ever before) is a revisionist phenomenon.
I don’t know whether all of that is true (the cancellations are probably easy to verify, but I wonder where you get your information about the sales numbers and, I guess you’re implying, price drops? the front row tickets in SF were not “fire sale prices”!), but the Thursday show in San Francisco seemed pretty packed. That’s a 2250-person house, so it was a lot of people even if it wasn’t actually sold out.
Season 12? I hope so, albeit with pretty much the same amendments that many other people have mentioned, so I won’t repeat them.
Favorite episode: Starcrash, an episode I still think would slot in just fine in their S3-6 heyday. Runners-up: Carnival Magic (a truly dumb joy), Wizards of the Lost Kingdom I (love me some Bo Svenson), Cry Wilderness (maybe the craziest movie they ever riffed on, and that’s saying something).
Least favorite episode: the two McClure movies are tied; At The Earth’s Core is the only episode I would flat out never watch again. This is a bummer, because at one of the LA live shows Joel answered the question “which S11 movies were you most excited to get the rights to?” with the McClure movies, as he said those were the ones that “introduced him to the concept of irony”, so I feel bad that I truly disliked two movies he “enjoyed” so much as a kid.*
Would I want a new season? Yeah, why the heck not? For one thing, it’s not like for every new episode of the show that’s produced someone deletes an episode from Season 4 and Men in Black mind-wipes all of us to forget that specific episode; for another, while there’s certainly things about the new season I’d quibble with, there’s more than enough of what we got in S11 that I liked and the stuff I didn’t I mainly chalk up to growing pains and the nature of how the show was filmed (Kali’s post on Page 1 sums it up for me, really). Now, if Season 12 looked almost entirely like Season 11? I’d probably be less enthused.
w/r/t the live shows: this is anecdotal evidence, but I went to the shows in LA, and while the Eegah! showing was maybe about 70% sold (with most of the empty seats in the upper balcony), the late showing was basically packed. Maybe it’s not that way nationwide, but I do feel like it’d be a bigger deal on, say, Reddit if the shows weren’t selling worth a damn. Not for nothing, btw, but both shows were *hilarious*; the secret movie would easily be my first or second favorite S11 episode, and the Eegah! riff was superb fun and very different (in a good way) from the original (although of course they got in the bored “Tequila” riff, because you *have* to, really).
*not that anybody cares, but the person that asked the question was me
No problem with roasting politicians, as long as both sides get it. The ratio was fairly skewed in your beloved Joel years, mostly due to Frank’s admitted bias. It’s also just a preference, you see it didn’t stop me from enjoying that run of the show. Unlike you and your constant snowflake yammering about Mike kicking your puppy and stealing all your second breakfasts.
It’s all true. The Salt Lake City and Vancouver shows were cancelled with no explanation yet, leaving fans on Twitter and Kickstarter asking Joel and MST3k, “What happened?”: https://www.reddit.com/r/MST3K/comments/6k2xec/live_show_in_vancouver_cancelled/
Regarding ticket prices, Ticketmaster has been “dynamically pricing” these tickets based on demand. When ticket sales first opened up in May, front-row seats for the Atlanta finale shows were $200-$300 per ticket per show, and you could get a seat five to six rows back for $100 per ticket per show if you were fortunate. Fast forward to July, and now the same front-row seats that were $200-$300 are now $60-$80 per ticket per show with the $100 tickets similarly discounted. In all my years of concerts and live shows, I’ve never seen these sort of front-row discounts much less front-row seats that are still available less than two weeks before the event: https://www1.ticketmaster.com/event/0E0052A303487BC6
On top of that, one of the hallmarks of any successful concert or live show is the term “SOLD OUT!”; this term creates buzz and an even higher demand for tickets at other tour stops. However, if we are to read into MST3k’s social media, they have never once declared a tour stop “SOLD OUT!”. In fact, the cancellations of the Vancouver and Salt Lake City shows would seem to indicate anemic ticket sales in these markets. Joel has even mentioned a few times on his Twitter about good seats still being available the very night of a tour stop and imploring people to come on down. That’s not to say that the shows are barren wastelands, but you’d think that a show with the name recognition and recent notoriety of the new MST3k would have sold out at least a couple of tour stops if not more: https://twitter.com/JoelGHodgson/status/883298903612956672
Between the tour stop cancellations, the heavily-discounted tickets, and the lack of “SOLD OUT!”, it’s somewhat safe to say that the tour has not been gangbusters. It’s been successful to an extent, but perhaps less than expected.
I’ll just Favorites (At least for now):
Reptilicus: 3 1/2 :Just seeing them back in the theater, just awe inspiring. And the song was just a great moment. Warmed my heart when I heard it and that some things hadn’t changed.
Cry Wilderness: 5 :That’s the new classic. Hands down. The song in the ending credits of the film and then Patton signing about the bowel cut in the same way he sang “Uncle Touchy s Naked Puzzle Basement” was a moment in of itself. The theater segments were classic MST.
Avalanche: 3 1/2 :Love these kind of films. Introduce the variety of characters from all walks of life, then throw hell at them and see who lives and dies.
Riffing was good. Enjoyable.
The Beast of Hollow Mountain: 5: I could watch this with or without the riffing, it was kind of a cute film I would have watched on a UHF station as a child on a Sunday morning eating cereal. J&TB did a great job and also features my favorite sketch of the season. (Guess which one that is.)
Yongary – Monster of the Deep: 5 :Never knew of this film and considering myself to be a fan of Kaiju I am kind of disappointed in myself. Depressing ending as I would have loved to see more of him in a franchise but after that mess I doubt they would out fear of bad taste.
Wizards of the Lost Kingdom II: 3 1/2 : Much more fun than the first, the wizard and his understudy were simply “shake your head and roll your eyes” and J&TB had fun with it. And the scene where the evil seductress tries to entice the boy (Which they also did in the first film) was just wrong and made me wonder what the director and writers were up to.
Carnival Magic: 3 :Yes a Three, it was fun, though it really just gets to the point sometimes when it becomes time to yank out a Rolling Rock and the cell phone for pause times. Hamill showing his diversity with his music bit was impressive.
Those are my favorites, didn’t mention the riffs much as obviously they were done well to be in my favorite, I tend to focus first if the movie is survivable, and if the host segments are done well. Though the riffs are just as important as the big picture.
Honorable mention: The Land The Time Forget for it’s Mesozoic Ranch Dinosaur BBQ, watching Felicia try to rock out while puckering her lips was absolutely adorable.
As another poster pointed out, the tour seems tired, with not everyone participating, and, yes, frankly, RiffTrax may have beaten “Love us!” tours into the ground. And even RT has seen the value of just taking it to the Fathom theater-screenings.
For RT, it’s all about the cult-of-personality rally–even if they have to kiss up to specific audiences with “Reefer Madness”–but the former Titanic crowd seems to go there for the movies and the riffing experience, and seeing Eegah riffed again gets the same divided “They’ll be creative!” vs. “Why bother?” opinions as CT’s Santa/Martians.
It’s Joel TRYING to take too many pages from Mike/RT’s narcissistic business playbook to get the brand jumpstarted again, since he’s more brand-focused this time, without seeing the fundamental audience differences and eventual downsides.
I’m not quite sure how Mike and RiffTrax have anything to do with Joel’s own questionable business decisions, especially since RiffTrax has never done a touring show. If anything, Joel was the inventor of the modern riffing tour with Cinematic Titanic. It also seems as though Joel is content with taking pages from the $6.3 million playbook of Hollywood-produced media instead of caring about RiffTrax’s methods. It just seems like a huge apples-to-oranges comparison that’s somehow meant to blame Mike and RiffTrax for Joel’s choices.
Here are some other uncomfortable truths for you, EricJ: Joel is a grownup that’s solely responsible for his own decisions, Mike carried water for MST3k for five years longer than Joel did, Mike probably wrote a bulk of the material that Joel says in your favorite episodes, and maybe, just maybe, the Mike years are funnier and better-looking than the Joel years. Don’t turn this into another Mike vs. Joel debacle, please.
Yes, but being on the road admittedly burned Joel and the CT off of touring, while Mike and RT just beat it into the ground out of oversaturation and overhype, and reduced their audiences to either just their private cult, or new audiences who literally thought RT had invented it.
Now that Joel’s got the official gen-u-ine MST3K brand back again, he’d do much better with a series of two or three-appearance concerts simulcast for the Fathom theaters than trying to fill venues in Vancouver and SLC, but he’s going by the old-school methods he knows from his own standup and appearance tours.
We can appreciate that he’s trying to build comic chemistry on the road, just that the road burns up more energy than it generates.
Couple corrections to your narrative… both DC shows were sold out. I was at the secret one and can vouch for that and Joel talks about it in this interview: Source – http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/movies/ct-myst-sci-theater-live-tv-0714-20170713-column.html
Boston opening night sold out as well: Source – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS8I5ICucUY
I’m willing to bet others were but I don’t see them highlighting it all the time. In DC on a Sunday night with some tickets getting you piss poor visibility selling out both shows is a pretty big deal.
Your narrative on the front row tickets is also misleading. The VIP packages guaranteed you premiem seats in the front rows as well as lots of goodies and the MEET AND GREET with the cast.. hence the several hundred dollars. In order to do that they had to block the general ticket price levels from getting those seats. It’s not surprising that they didn’t sell out every VIP package ticket (cost me $600 for the 2nd highest price package for 3 people) and when the date got closer they opened the remaining seats in the first 10 rows up without the VIP extras for the same price as the other main floor seats. This is not different then what other shows/concerts have done and makes complete sense. The seats weren’t discounted they were simply sold without the VIP level extras.
I don’t know you but you seem to have come to the conclusion that the revival is not going well and your entire post on the live tour looks like you are suffering from confirmation bias.
Trace and Frank are on tour playing ‘sold out’ shows but the show is held in a movie theatre with a fraction of the seating capacity.. I’m sure they would be very happy to play an almost sold out show at the theatres that MST3K is playing in.
Selling Out a theater is not the end all be all of a successful tour. Size of the crowds, buzz created, merchandise sales (which are doing really well based on the lines and price points I saw in DC), and happy attendees are all markers of a successful tour. They seem to be doing really well, outdoing Cinematic Titanic’s tours by a long shot and connecting fans of the show.
Same in SF. I kind of wanted one of the “bonehead” enamel pins but was reallly not willing to stand in the line.
Joel should have given the new MST3k a bit more time to marinate before embarking on a 29-city touring show. The tour is extremely ambitious of him, and it’s rather amazing that he’s doing it with such a small road crew and setup. Joel has sacrificed so much time and energy into bringing his beloved series back to life, and it’s quite admirable.
However, it all feels so rushed. The tour was announced a mere month after the premiere of the new season. The tour had around two months of development prior to hitting the road, which seems like a short amount of time for such a large tour. The lack of Felicia and Patton outside of prerecorded segments, though understandable from a cost and family obligation perspective, makes it feel a bit half-baked, especially since they are the biggest names associated with the new season.
On top of that, many people haven’t made it through the bulk of the new season, and even though the name recognition of MST3k is at an all-time high, it hasn’t had time to be cemented as a must-watch series. If Netflix had simply trickle-released the new episodes instead of releasing the whole season at once, we would be seeing way more buzz and excitement for a longer period of time (e.g., weekly episode reviews by media outlets, weekly watch parties and discussion groups). As it stands for new and returning viewers, watching fourteen 90-minute episodes in quick succession is a daunting task and pushes the show to “when I have time” viewing instead of must-watch viewing.
Even waiting just a few more months before going out on tour could have reignited some of the excitement that’s dissipated since the premiere. Imagine if they had waited to announce the tour at San Diego Comic-Con, which is the world’s biggest nerd culture megaphone. Granted, if they didn’t do the tour now, they may have had to wait until summer 2018 just in case the new season was greenlit for fall/winter 2017 production. However, perhaps the wait would have led to an even more exciting, engaging, and intricate tour experience.
It’s hard to say if Fathom Events would work as well for MST3k as it has for RiffTrax. While Fathom Events could perhaps serve as a proof-of-concept for a MST3k live tour, it’s hard to see Fathom becoming their venue of choice. We’ll see what happens!
It’s nice to hear an on-the-ground report about the tour and sold-out shows. However, stripping the VIP off of the best tickets to get them sold seems to constitute a discount since they weren’t originally available without the VIP package price. As previously mentioned, the tickets have been subject to Ticketmaster’s dynamic pricing, and after watching the tickets for almost three months, there have definitely been price fluctuations skewing towards lower prices.
It would also be fair to say that two entire cities cancelled with no explanation does not make for good optics regarding the state of the tour. People may be showing up, but the limited celebratory updates from the official MST3k accounts give a different vibe. Also, if spending $600 on the thing you’re defending doesn’t scream “confirmation bias”, I’m not quite sure what does. I’m glad the reality is supposedly better than the theory, though.
I am disappointed to see so much sniping on this thread, i though this community was better than that.
I’ve watched all the episodes once, and the first 3 again.
Favorite episode – I think cry WILDERNESS, its so weird and really strong riffs.
Least favorite – Christmas that almost wasn’t. The movie was a bore they couldnt overcome.
Another season? Of course. Why would anyone say no? If you don’t like the new series, dont watch it. Why not allow those that are enjoying it have more seasons? Are you so bitter in life that you deny other pleasure? I don’t get it.
the two cancellations don’t make good optics but all the other press has been great so it’s not enough of a downer to keep harping on it IMO. I agree the official MST3K account could toot their own horn a bit more but it’s hardly worth mentioning unless the tour wasn’t doing well.
I am not familiar with the ticketmaster dynamic pricing? One of my shows didn’t use ticketmaster and the other one I went straight for the VIP prices. What shows are you looking at?
As far as seat discounts… I am not interested in a semantic argument but the VIP packages have sold very well and is a total win for the tour’s bottom line and the fans. It was a smart business move not a bad one. I don’t see why you are attempting to spin it in a negative light ‘they can’t even sell front row tickets without a discount’. That is simply a narrow context narrative spin to be negative about a ticket strategy that is well liked by fans and paying off for the tour.
Did you even go to a show?
Overall I enjoyed the season. I would like a season 12 for sure. I thought movies were good and cheesy though i would like to see a few nice HD prints of some old full screen black and white films.
At the beginning of watching the season i could not tell Jonah and Servo apart vocally but after finishing it all i can. Favorite episodes in no particular order, Cry wilderness, Starcrash and the the first wizard of the lost kingdom. I liked Carnival magic just cause it was so dark. so creepy. so wrong, but such a good choice.
I think the camera work for host segments needs to be on some sort of tripod, the camera shake was getting to me. and perhaps other camera angles on the SOL? the dropdown flat screen is cool but the hexfield is better. i want to see more of the bridge of the ship! cameos seemed a bit forced, some were better than others. As others have echoed i would have liked to seen guests on the SOL or in theater, even if briefly.
I am all for new robots and new characters on the SOL too, maybe have them last more than 3 minutes in an episode, poor waverly.
The one thing we may all be in agreement on:
Bring Back The Hexfield Viewscreen!
(and Magic Voice while you’re at it!)
I’m a big fan of Film Crew/Rifftrax and Cinematic Titanic. I place the new MST3K about in between the two with a lot of potential. So yes, I want more new MST3K.
Avalanche, Time Travelers, Starcrash, and Yongury were among my favorites. Christmas that Almost Wasn’t and the first Wizards movie were among the least, but I’m liking them more. Cry Wilderness and Carnival Magic and to a lesser extent the Wizards movies struck me as being so bad they would have been rejected by the original run of MST3K. They make Coleman Francis’ movies and Manos look like legitimate cinema by comparison.
Kinga’s character could use some work, but Max is perfect. Except for Mark Hamil I thought the guest appearances were surprisingly flat. The hexfeild would be nice to see again. I liked the Skeleton Crew and the reworked old songs, particularly The Canada Song. I hear the words “Bacon lovin’ bastards” as it plays. I’m fine with the ongoing story and am curious how it plays out with that strange other guy in the jumpsuit, the man on the outside of the S.O.L., and the borderline supernatural manifestations. Overall I was pleasantly surprised at how good the whole thing is. So yeah, more would be nice.
I don’t know. The only episode I truly disliked was the last one, but I don’t think any of the other episodes stood out enough for me to pick a favorite. I tended to enjoy the host segments and Mads more than the riffing, and though I’ve been trying hard to re-watch every episode, I’m finding it difficult to get excited about it. I’d prefer to see a season 12, because I think it definitely can get better, but if it doesn’t happen I’m not going to be terribly upset. This season was like season 2 for me: some bright moments, but overall not too many episodes I get excited about re-watching. If they can jump from season 2 to season 3 quality though? Sign me up.
Cast-wise, I liked everyone except for Baron. I tried to like him, and he got better in the later episodes, but his Tom Servo just does not do it for me. Sorry Baron. This was only cemented by the live show, where I could barely tell that someone else was doing his voice, but I honestly don’t know who could fill those shoes properly. I didn’t mind the Gypsy voice change at all, nor did I mind her jokes in the theater, but I could probably do without the latter. The weakest part for me overall was the riffing. It wasn’t just the fast pace that’s been harped on enough, and which did get better in later episodes, but the delivery and overall quality as well. I’d maybe laugh at 1 in 8 jokes. This is a point that’s been brought up again and again, so I’ll just say that I echo others’ opinion that they should actually be in the theater together recording their lines.
The live show was severely underwhelming for me, but only because the sound in our theater was horrible, at least where we were sitting. Their audio mix might have been partially to blame, but I think it was overwhelmingly the fault of the Pabst’s garbage acoustics. People in the center of the theater were clearly hearing jokes that my wife and I couldn’t decipher. If they do another tour I’d go if it was at a different venue.
So yeah, I guess I’m somewhat on the fence. If they’re not going to make some decent changes for season 12, I would say don’t bother. But, obviously other people are enjoying it more than me, and I don’t begrudge them getting more of what they’re liking.
But you did EXPECT to see all the sniping, right? If S11 has proved anything, it’s that (some) fans of an existing property will crap all over themselves in fury in a foolish attempt to “protect” their beloved original.
EricJ, for a ramchip, name some things you like about Mike Nelson and/or Rifftrax. He was the head writer and a recurring player on your favorite seasons of MST3K. How can you possibly find not one positive thing to mention about him?
Hoverskirt, you mean.
Haha, yes, that would be more accurate.
MST3K official facebook page just announced that the Cleveland show is sold out.
gah.. sorry about the sound issues at your live show. That stinks. I had a hard time hearing the movie dialogue occassionally but we were front and center. I can’t imagine what kind of crap mix the back of the theater was getting. I agree that the sound could have been better. Sound issues have ruined many concerts that I have seen and it is enfuriating everytime.
Oh god, I have said “don’t troll the troll” but you sound like Jon Lovitz in “The Critic.” when I read that.
Oh noooo Peter! I am…say it ain’t so…like the Weezer song? Sing it to me?
I really think they need to find Baron’s brother and have him jetski his nose. I kid I kid! As for Gypsy, I really didn’t think too much of her in the old series so I never cared either way. Except PINKING SHEERS!!
As of your experience in the theater, working in the business it’s more or less small theater owners just don’t give a rat’s ass and really could care less about upgrading. Since they can’t run the big films and make big cash who cares?
Most are run by slumlords who shell out enough to keep it running then drive down to curse when there’s not enough being made from “Last House on the Left” running on a loop all weekend.
One of the managers told me “**** I upgrade to VHS, then they come…” What is this Boogie Nights?
okay, sampo’s gonna hate me for this so much, i might expect my response to get deleted (for more reasons than the obvious), but i’m giving a QUALIFIED yes/no, and that is… (drumroll…) “NO!” (“but, yes! wwait, i wanna change my answer!” ;0)
hear me out, thank me later… why the schroedenger’s cat answer? because, i say “absolutely YES,” i want to see more, mst3k s12 and beyond. -but-, because i’m not a netflix person… i’m into downloadables. and i’m treasuring (and keep-saking for all the right reasons) my dls of s11. i trust that (outside the bits of epi samples being uploaded to youtube/elsewhere, and ani-gifs being generated) are staying tasteful and within-the-limits enough to not be giving away the whole season-store.
without chewing on details, modern game consoles have nice big drives to hold your personal library of movie dls, so i treasure my collection – available anytime, whether on- or offline (and my console’s not usually – hardly ever – plugged into the net). so, there’s times when that’s a consideration for those who have limited plug-in limitations.
i’d rather netflix perhaps agrees to a “qualified yes” too, that lets them do a more limited version of a KS… “matching funds” to half of the KS joel/shout launched two years ago. the goal’s cut in half, allows KS’s a tier to get DLs again. that’s fair! i’d pay up front just what i did last time, so that i don’t have to do netflix just to view s12.
make sense? sure it does! it’s a sensible answer to allow us good folk to have DLables of the epis.
rock on, crew of the Satellite of Love… and alla you! (yeah, you too, you screwheads, you!) p.s. my top/bottom 14 of s11 may or may not come later; haven’t gotten too definitive about that yet, but it’s formulating/perculating/mestastizing. tbc… or, like my favorite band always playing at local clubs… TBA…