Short: (1945) A newsreel spanning the globe to bring you the constant variety of winter sports, (including “she-ing” and “she-horing.”)
Movie: (1956) With the aid of a deluded Earth scientist, a Venusian pickle creature uses bat thingies to take control of humanity.
First shown: 8/24/91
Opening: Joel tries his hand at ventriloquism, with Crow as his dummy
Invention exchange: The Mads show off their hanged man costumes; Joel has invented the “Sony Sea-man”
Host segment 1: Tom narrates “The Winter Cavalcade of Fun”
Host segment 2: J&tB share sarcastic banter over dinner
Host segment 3: With time to kill, J&tB sing a song about celebrity siblings with the same last names
End: J&tB rewatch Peter Graves’ speech, Crow, Tom and Gypsy each read a letter, the Mads rewatch Peter Graves’ speech
Stinger: “He learned too late that a man is a feeling creature…”
(128 votes, average: 4.61 out of 5)
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• I’ll start with the good news. The short is great fun, with great riffing. All the host segments, even the oddball song in segment three, are entertaining. And the movie is, well, what can you say? It’s classic Corman. Now the bad news: the riffing just kind of limps along, with only occasional bright spots. State park jokes abound. As with “Amazing Colossal Man,” I think they kind of got caught up in the movie a little. So there’s fun to be had in this episode, just not as much as I would have liked.
• This episode is not yet on commercial DVD.
• For you younger folks, “Star Search” was sort of the ’90s version of “America’s Got Talent.” Amusingly, Geechy Guy (a repeat contestant on “Star Search”), STILL seeking fame, also appeared on AGT.
• Joel’s mannerisms as the ventriloquist are classic. The random movements are done to distract you from looking at the ventriloquist’s lips.
• In Googling around, I actually found a reliable site that gave me a definitive year–1945–for “Snow Thrills,” one of the few shorts we hadn’t been able to put a date on.
• Callback: “That’s not half bad!” “She’s givin’ it back to you!” (a paraphrase from Sidehackers) “Chili peppers burn his gut.” (Sidehackers.)
• Triple callback: “Thong? Ator? Puma?” (Cave Dwellers and Ring of Terror) I half-expected to hear “Chief?” next.
• Naughty line: Announcer: “It’s the biggest one-man thrill in Jack Frost’s show.” Joel: “I know a better one…”
• As previously noted, this movie is our first taste of oeuvre of one Roger Corman. Dr. F. introduces it as one of his best and that may be true. But he also says “it’s really really really bad,” and I don’t think that’s true. It’s not a “good” movie, of course, but it’s not really bad one either. Its chief defect is that it was clearly made on a very low budget. But, despite that, Corman coaxes some really pretty good performances out of people who would go on to be known as pretty good actors. In addition, the story, while silly in some places, is almost gripping in others. We’ll see many worse movies, including some from Corman, is I guess what I’m saying.
• Then-current reference: “I’d rather watch ‘thirtysomething’.” (And the second “thirtysomething” reference in two or three episodes.)
• Joel again warns Tom about Anthony Newly impressions.
• They again do a “Helloooo baaaaaaby…” joke during a plane crash. Two episodes ago somebody called it “mean.” I’m not sure I’d go that far, but I’ll grant you it’s a little dark.
• My copy is from Turkey Day ’94, and includes a commercial for the video game “Burn Cycle,” for Magnavox’s cd-i game platform. Remember THAT vaporware?
• During the song in segment 3, Tom again does his Tom Waits impression.
• Also, about the song: The joke is that they claim to naming celebrity siblings with the same last name, but they are actually naming people with the same last name who AREN’T actually siblings (i.e. Mary Tyler and Roger Moore). I hate to break it to whoever wrote the lyrics (the credits do not specifically name the person), but Julia and Eric Roberts ARE siblings.
• Somewhat obscure riff: “Not the craw, the craw!” (A “Get Smart” running gag.)
• The closing repetition of the speech can be explained by Joel’s earlier admission that the show was a bit short that week.
• Bot stuff: Is this the first time they’ve used the word “hoverskirt”? Also: In the final segment Joel, also takes a moment to explain Gypsy and her role again.
• Backstage stuff: The Venusian costume was lobster red. It was nicknamed “Big Beulah” by its creator, Paul Blaisdell, and “Denny Dimwit” by the screenwriters. Other names given by the cast and crew were the “Tee-Pee Terror,” “the Cucumber Critter” and “The Carrot Monster.” When she was a guest at an MST3K convention, Beverly Garland recalled that she kept telling herself that it wasn’t finished, that they were still working on it, that it would get better. But of course, it never did. Chocolate syrup served as the Venusian’s blood. Always ready to reuse props, Corman used the bat-thingies again the following year in “The Undead.”
• Once again, the exterior shots were done at Bronson Canyon, which was also used for exterior shots in the filming of seven other MSTed movies.
• Crow and Joel get out of the way so Tom can read the number off the side of the jeep.
• This movie was remade for television by director Larry “Attack of the the Eye Creatures” Buchanan as “Zontar, The Thing from Venus.”
• Cast and crew roundup: LOTS of folks we will meet again in this one, so strap in: Executive producers Samuel Z. Arkoff and James H. Nicholson performed the same roles for “Earth Vs. the Spider,” “Teenage Caveman,” “Viking Women and the Sea Serpent,” “War of the Colossal Beast,” “Night of the Blood Beast, “The Undead,” “Terror from the Year 5000,” “The She-Creature,” “I Was A Teenage Werewolf” and “The Screaming Skull.” Writer Lou Rusoff also helped write “The She Creature.” Writer Charles Griffith also helped write “Terror from the Year 5000” and “Gunslinger.” Cinematographer Frederick West also worked on “Gunslinger,” “The She Creature” and “Swamp Diamonds. Editor Charles Gross also worked on “Gunslinger.” Prop Master Karl Brainard also worked on “Teenage Caveman,” “Night of the Blood Beast” and “The She Creature.” Score composer Ronald Stein also did the scores for “Gunslinger,” “The Undead,” “The She Creature,” Attack of the the Eye Creatures” and “The Girl in Lovers Lane.” And, of course, Roger Corman, in addition to this movie, directed “Teenage Caveman,” “Viking Women and the Sea Serpent,” “Swamp Diamonds,” “Gunslinger,” and “The Undead.” Corman also produced “Attack of the Giant Leeches,” “High School Big Shot” and “Night of the Blood Beast.”
In front of the camera, Peter Graves is one the actors most seen in MST3K movies: he also appears in “Beginning of the End,” “SST Death Flight,”and “Parts: The Clonus Horror.” He also provided the uncredited narration for “Attack of the the the Eye Creatures. Beverly Garland also appeared in “Swamp Diamonds” and “Gunslinger.” Lee Van Cleef also appeared in “Master Ninja I” and “Master Ninja 2.” Sally Frasier also appears in “War of the Colossal Beast” and “Earth Vs. the Spider. Dick Miller also appears in “Gunslinger” and “The Undead.” Another actor with a lot of MST3K appearances is Jonathan Haze, who was in this, “Viking Women and the Sea Serpent,” “Swamp Diamonds,” “Teenage Caveman” and “Gunslinger.” Karyne Kadler was also in “The Beatniks.” Marshall Bradford was also in “Teenage Caveman” and David McMahon was also in “The Deadly Mantis.”
• CreditsWatch: Karen Lindsey is back in the credits as online editor. Clayton James does the first of 11 stints as hair and makeup person. Additional contributing writers for this episode were Jef Maynard, Jann Johnson, Alexandra Carr and Timothy Scott. I suspect that credit happens when one of them wanders into the writing room and says something funny and they keep it. Trace and Frank are still “guest villians” (misspelled) and Dr. F’s last name is again spelled “Forrestor.”
• Fave riff from the short: “Get in, old man, you’ve seen enough.” Honorable mention: “Yeah, well, you’re full of skit.”
• Fave riff: “Venus? You know: no arms, nice rack…” Honorable mention: “She’s just going to slip into something a little more clinical.”
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One of my favorites! Of course, haven’t seen it in years since my tape was destroyed (the same tape also had Time of the Apes, it was a sad day in my house)
It’s classic, you have Peter Graves and Lee Van Cleef? That right there makes it awesome. I grew up watching the Airplane movies, so I’ve always loved Peter Graves and Van Cleef was in some of the best westerns ever along with Escape From New York (which I’ve seen dozens of times thanks to my many male cousins).
And I said it before, and I’ll say it again. The plane crash with The Big Bopper “hello Baby!” is mean. But I can’t help but laugh every time I hear it.
I forgot to do my catchphrases
Joel’s Hair
Joel’s Knees
Man is a Feeling Creature
Thank God for Roger Corman !
I need therapy again
I’m with Sampo and others, this is a good episode, not a great one. I mainly blame the major drag in the movie and the lackluster riffing. The short is only so-so. Also the Host Segments are good, there’s the occasional quotable, but they’re not great, classic sketches. What I’m getting at is, it is a 3/5 episode.
The movie itself saves this episode actually. As mentioned above, parts are super silly but other parts are (sorta) gripping. Lee Van Cleef is one of my fave genre actors and he does a good job here. And c’mon, Peter Graves and that speech. . . .priceless.
Can’t believe there’s been no mention of this: during the opening, when Joel is trying to ventriloquist Crow and stuff, he calls him “Peanut” and tells a couple lame-o jokes, all in the mold of that Jeff Dunham guy. You know, the guy….the one with a puppet called Peanut that tells lame-o jokes. Yeah. That guy. It’s an obvious reference as Dunham has been doing that same schtick for 20 years or something. Just to be clear. . . .I HATE Jeff Dunham. This is just something that I noticed.
Could someone please tell me where Dick Miller was in this movie? I wasn’t paying enough attention and I missed him I guess.
Glad to see the mentions of Sam Fuller so far. I like his stuff alot, Shock Corridor and Pickup on South Street especially. I got The Steel Helmet and White Dog on library loan right now.
RIFFS AND THING:
during the short,
Crow: “Yes, it’s never too early to fuse your spinal cord together. In a few years these children will be addicted to pain killers, but for now little Billy is paralyzed.”
Van Cleef takes a swig,
Joel: “ooh, that’s good booze, oooooh.”
Van Cleef looking through binoculars,
Crow: “I like to go a few blocks away and secretly watch my wife.”
when the “bats” are flying about,
Crow: “I’m not touching you!”
Joel: “Ah, squealing (tires) on dirt is illegal.”
Crow: “Never put a bazooka on your crotch.”
Joel: “It’s the Kool-Aid guy gone wrong!”
Joel: “Schmuckers Jelly always tastes freshest.”
.
3/5
They mention Julia and Eric Roberts in the celebrity siblings sketch, who actually are siblings, but I guess that wasn’t common knowledge, especially before the interweb. Although, it’s a bit of a stretch calling Eric Roberts a celebrity. :silly:
I’d say this experiment starts out pretty strong, after the lame ventriloquist stuff, but you kind of get caught in the movie by the third act, so I can’t say if the quality of riffs drops off, or if I was just paying less attention to them. Sure it’s a stupid movie, but Lee Van Cleef does a good job selling his gradual loss of faith in the Pickle, and it sucks you in. Peter Graves, as usual, is so wooden he should get checked for termites. And, as they state in the ACEG, Beverly Garland steals every scene she’s in. ’50s woman be doing for her herself.
Oh, necktie party! I get it now. :-((
#39 – I’m usually the first one to accuse others of only being fans of the later episodes, but to accuse Sampo of it is just loony.
He’s been in the game since day 1 (or at least day 2) and he and Erhardt even took over originally to replace the printed info club newsletter.
You must be a late-coming fan yourself not to know this.
As for this episode, I also find it a bit of a slog and hard to get through, but it’s still funny, especially the short.
“Could someone please tell me where Dick Miller was in this movie? I wasn’t paying enough attention and I missed him I guess.”
Dick Miller is one of the army guys.
He is the Sargeant at the gate and later the Sgt. of the platoon who takes on the monster in the cave. He has a couple of lines. I think one of them was something about the electricity being out and its effect on “my wife’s big mouth”.
#37:
Yeah plus Man-or-Astro-man used bits from the film in the song “Live Transmissions from Uranus”
Ooooh. This was the first episode of MST I ever watched. I agree it’s a bit slow, but over all it’ a good episode. And I find the dinner scene in host segment 2 absolutely hysterical.
“This coffee tastes like mud–Roger Mudd.”
This movie had the “learned too late” speech, Phantom Planet had “the good and the beautiful” line. It’s always nice to have a dash of pretense in your low-budget sci-fi movie.
Wow, I got 4 responses to my post.
#42 John R Ellis, “you got me – (Frank)” My handle is all Mike era names (if you include Mitchell as the first Mike ep), but you missed Beardsley which
#43 JCC got. Just wanted a funny name, not necessarily representative of my favorite episodes (although Rowsdower is one). Otherwise my name might be Pete “I don’t care” Plum. Not as funny.
#56 Mike – I’ve been a MSTie since Turkey Day ’92. The first first-run episode I ever taped was. . .”MANOS!” Not really a newbie.
Sampo: I just meant that to me, all but maybe 5 season 2-5.5 episodes are at last 3 out of 4 stars for me. This one included. Its a classic! Anyway, I was referring to Mike (didn’t he admit they were just slogging thru season 6 at some point?). Just my opinion, but liking Mike era over Joel era is akin to liking Ronny James Dio Black Sabbath over Ozzy Black Sabbath. I can’t wrap my head around it. Not that you ever said you prefer Mike – maybe you did, I don’t know. Just seems like you’re hard on these hilarious Joels, yet treat Red Zone Cuba (or whatever) as if it’s just as funny. Paraphrasing I know, but the Mike skits have a lot more problems than the Joel era ones, I think. Anyway, I hope to get my Gamera 5 pack tomorrow so I can enjoy some season 3 goodness.
Mitchell Rowsdower Beardsley: When someone asks me “Joel or Mike” I say, “yes, please.” I have no preference. As Mr. B Natural says: “They’re members of my family, boy! I love ’em all!” But some more than others. I call ’em like I see ’em. I don’t claim to be the final authority: that’s why I open these up for discussion. Sampo’s theorem states, for those arriving late: “For every MSTie who believes a given episode is their worst outing ever, there is another who believes it is their finest hour.”
What I’ve learned in going through these, episode by episode, is that in eras I thought were great, there were some klunkers, and in eras some say the show was “running out of steam” I find classic gems. So I’d say let go of the “era” thinking and consider each one as you watch it. Or don’t. Everybody enjoys MST3K differently. It’s all good.
Tom Carberry Jonathan Haze was cool in “Viking women”. He was the only male viking to actually do some fighting, and win too!
The “Not the craw. The craw!” is from Get Smart.
I was so excited to see this for the first time because of Frank Zappa’s “Cheepnis”
Overall- a pretty good episode- always works for me- and of course, man is a feeling creature.
This is one of my top ten episodes, I love this one, and have since I first saw it back in ’92. Those end credits with the speech repeated, genius, pure genius. Jonathan Haze, all in my brain! He was in Little Shop Of Horrors, the original Seymour! You know, watching all these MST episodes, it really starts to make you an expert on B-movie cast and crew. I never knew who most of these people were before discovering this show. Now, when I see Merritt Stone or Gene Roth in the credits, I get a big smile on my face. These are my people!
And the dinner segment rules, too!
And my handle isn’t an MST reference. Who/what/am PondosCP? Google will reveal all…. (and some quite dated stuff, too!)
Calls from Venus?
SERVO: You know, no arms, nice rack?
JOEL: Hey!
Yes, it’s Roger Corman’s Vlasic pickle! Supposedly, Beverly Garland laughed when she saw it, and that’s why they added the cone. Still looks ridiculous.
Oh, and #5: Dick Miller is ALWAYS in these things. ;-)
“It’s the sled of the sub-genius.” Ah, nothing like a Firesign gag…
I did get sick of the “Corky Joins the Army” gags by the end, but still, one of the all time great episodes. Peter Graves must be the patron saint of MST3K (and one RiffTrax). And Beverly Garland is one of the all time great actors to be MSTed.
Even the movie’s own quotes are notable: “Your hands are human but your mind is enemy,” and, of course, “He learned too late that man was a feeling creature…”
And when you watch it for the first time, you never expected that Paul would kill his possessed wife — and then he does it!
PAUL: How long are we going to be like this?
JOAN: For the rest of our lives.
SERVO: Scientology is great, isn’t it?
TOM: How’s Joan?
CROW: She da da…um, dusting!
PAUL: She’s dead.
(We didn’t expect this either…)
CLAIRE: He had a gun.
TOM: A gun?
CLAIRE (angry now): “That’s right Tom, you just had an undeserved stay of execution!”
JOEL: “Gosh, I should get him something.”
Answering the phone:
PAUL: Paul Nelson here.
SERVO: Gunsmoke, nah, it’ll never work, call my brother!
PAUL: That’s impossible!
CROW: Mission: Impossible! That sounds great!
Here comes the bat-thing!
SERVO (as Paul): Oh no! It thinks I’m Tippi Hedren!
SERVO: Wow, great effect, huh?
CROW: Oh, just get a pair of scissors and cut the string!
Geez, the slime creatures in that Star Trek episode were more believable – and in the outtakes you get to see one of them slap Spock in the butt! :heh:
PAUL: I’ve got people, plenty of people!
SERVO: Barney! Paris! They’ll help me!
SCIENTIST: Well, there’s blankets and canned goods in the broom closet. We’ll make out.
JOEL: Oh, wowwww!”
Yikes, Joel!!
Paul kills everyone in the room.
SERVO: Ah, you were all bad guys, right?
SERVO: I always knew I’d make a better cowboy than my brother!
Paul must not be a good shot, though – he missed one…
I loved it when Tom finally starts to act like a hero — and Servo starts whistling that Clint Eastwood theme.
SERVO: Hi, Pete, little late!
Hmm, the only thing Paul does is kill his bat thing, kill everyone in a room, and make Shatnerian speeches. He’s the hero.
PAUL: General, shouldn’t we move that rock?
SERVO: That’s not a rock! That’s a rock lobster! Down, down, down…
(That’s a Firesign reference too, isn’t it?)
Real missed opportunity though – the Brains should have done Zontar too. I saw it out of pure horror once. Admittedly, It Conquered the World isn’t really Corman at his best (although I do like it unMSTed), but it’s Citizen Kane compared to Zontar. And John Agar is in it, for gods sake! We always said the Brains didn’t nearly do enough John Agar films. The Brain From Planet Arous is just begging for a MSTing! Somebody tell the Cinematic Titanic Institute.
Seriously, they really needed to do more Larry Buchanan films. The bots would have gone insane.
@43: I’m with you on knowing Peter Graves long before James Arness. I was also born in the 1980’s, so for me, Peter Graves is “that guy from Airplane!, Biography, and Mission: Impossible.” James Arness is merely, “Peter Graves’s brother.” I guess that for a generation older than us, Peter is the brother of the supposedly more famous actor.
Forgot one:
PAUL: Listen, you know, in the last 24 hours, men have had their minds, their personalities, their moral standards imprisoned? The whole population has been herded like cattle into the desert! That men have been murdered for failing to obey their new master?
SERVO: Yeah, I hate the 700 Club too.
I miss Mystery Science…
Thank you Brandon and Tom Carberry for telling me where Dick Miller was. (Weirdest sentence I’ve ever typed).
This movie itself made me go “Holy Carp!”
The riffing here was fun but for me the movie took a sharp left into WTH-ville when Peter Graves *kills* his mind controlled wife. I mean, it doesn’t *occur* to him to even *consider* whether or not the mind control can be *broken*? Nope, it’s just “Well, my wife has gone over to the dark side now, guess I’d better end her.”
And when you factor in the Cold War/Anti-Communist undertone (yeah, yeah, it’s so blatant it’s not really an undertone) it makes it even more skeevy since it’s basically saying “Yeah, once someone goes to Communism there’s no getting them back so you might as well just kill them”.
Definitely one of the weirder movies the gang riffed.
This one is middle of the road. I enjoy the short more than the actually movie. I’ve renamed it to “It Took Over a Few People” and “Attack of the Killer Quesadias” (I definitely misspelled it and I apologize). I believe the speech that Peter Graves gives at the end is just to fill time at the end of the movie. I almost always vone out during it it’s that boring to me.
Beverly Garland was the only saving grace in the entire movie. The fact that she had to act with a giant pickle monster thing just proves her acting chops. Lee Van Cleef just angers me with his smug attitude toward the whole invasion and trying to be a friend to the alien that only he can understand.
re 68
“PAUL: General, shouldn’t we move that rock?
SERVO: That’s not a rock! That’s a rock lobster! Down, down, down…
(That’s a Firesign reference too, isn’t it?)”
Believe this is a reference to a song by the B-52s, not to Firesign.
I give this one 4.5 stars. First time I saw this episode I thought it was the funniest one I had ever seen. Now I don’t think that quite so much. Still very good though. The movie is good on its own. The kind of thing I would love to find on a random channel in the middle of the night. I can’t find too much to fault with Corman’s movies, other than cheepnis. The monster is ridiculous of course. Beverly Garland (fantastic as always), should have gotten an Oscar for acting with the pickle monster. I hope Roger Corman, or whomever is holding up release of these episodes, knows how much affection I think most of us have for his movies and these episodes. At the least I appreciate that he has women in these films who are there for a reason other than to scream a lot and eventually get saved by whatever bloated lunkhead is supposed to be the hero.
Occassionally in these discussions a comment along the lines of “the riffing lags as the Brains seem to get caught up in this better than average film” comes up. Variations on that popped up a couple times in this thread.
I find this comment fastinating. If you were only watching a given movie once than I can see how that can happen. I’m one of those people who has never seen a single one of the films featured in this show prior to actually seeing it on this show. So when you come accross a film that is better than the average MST target I’ve occassionaly found myself tuning out the riffing to actually follow the film itself. I might even say this episode was a better than average MST film and better than average Corman film.
That aside, the Brains aren’t watching these movies only once. Given the 5-6+ viewings they did during the writing process, one would think if they did get caught up in the film on the first run (or even two) they should be able to overcome that in the later viewings and still come up with consistant riffing coverage throughout a film if all other elements are equal. I know when I get caught up in a better than average film and wish the Brains would “shut up” so I can watch the film on the first viewing (and this didn’t happen often), then a second viewing is just what the doctor ordered so I can go back take in the riffs I was tuning out on that first pass.
Anyway just some thoughts I was having on this comment. Discuss amongst yourselves.
This episode rarely gets played in my house – and if it does, I almost always skip over Segment 3. That’s gotta be one of the most awkward, poorly-performed skits they ever did. It’s just embarrassing to see Joel standing there with this look on his face like “What the hell am I saying and why the hell am I saying it?”
On another note, I’ve noticed a couple of you are creeping perilously close to liking or defending Roger Corman in this thread. To those people I invite you to review Bill Corbets AGEG comments for 806 The Undead. https://www.mst3kinfo.com/aceg/8/806/ep806.html Or if you must watch the movie itself. After reviewing that piece of evidence, carefully step away from the ledge. :-D
For all those Dick Miller fans out there, be sure to check out his website! I ordered an autographed picture of him and it was a nice experience and he’s a super nice guy! The picture was from the original Not Of This Earth where Dick played a vaccuum cleaner salesman in a memorable role.
As far as Corman goes, the films he directed I think are like any others in a director’s catalog, with highs and lows. For instance, sure Hitchcock directed North By Northwest and The Trouble With Harry but he also directed Topaz and Under Capricorn, movies that are slower than watching a glacier traveling in real time. Then again those two flicks might be someone’s cup of tea other than mine. But that’s the important part: context.
Corman was after the bottom dollar and I think of him as a producer first that learned how to be a director on the way. He kind of put himself through the training opportunities that he later put other novice directors through like Ron Howard and Jonathan Demme and Joe Dante and the like: learn as you go and be under budget. I liked the Poe pictures because they show someone who has learned a lot given his beginnings with stuff like Five Guns West and Swamp Diamonds. Granted Vincent Price or Ray Milland carried a lot of the load, but they were well produced, visually interesting movies in the context of the Corman universe to be sure.
The Undead I could pass over in a heartbeat and Viking Women…etc is like watching dried paint fade in the sun, but I could watch It Conquered the World or Not Of This Earth or Attack Of The Crab Monsters or The Little Shop Of Horrors at the drop of a hat so it all depends on taste. Corman’s directing I can take or leave, but as a producer running projects and studios and backing and preselling, he’s second to none. Corman could sell movies based on practically nothing but a poster and a faded or upcoming star and that’s it.
On a technical level he’s much better than Coleman Francis or Ed Wood or Ray Dennis Steckler or a host of other directors that he gets lumped together with. Plus, I rarely have problems following his storylines, weak or goofy as they may be in some or most of his pictures.
Also if you haven’t checked out Shout Factory’s Roger Corman’s Cult Classics line of DVDs yet, you should. Shout is giving these flicks loving care that I didn’t think was possible before. But seeing as how well the MST sets are coming out, I shouldn’t have been as surprised as I was.
@Dan in WI
I think sometimes the silence might be more a case of the riffers thinking that the point in the movie was funnier *without* a comment.
It’s something I noticed in CT’s “Alien Factor” — there were a couple of places where I fully expected several riffs only to be met with dead silence by the team. The audience twittered with laughter at just what was happening on the screen so I suppose the Titans were right to let it lie.
That doesn’t discount, however, that their judgement may have been wrong in places over the years.
#79 – False equivalency, having completely conquered the world of politics, finds its way to this forum.
Hitchcock made a couple of bad films, therefore Corman = Hitchcock. Well, I can see how…WHAAA?!?!?!?!?
That isn’t literally what you said, but you sure implied it.
I would also refer you to Bill C.’s ACEG entry, referenced above.
Corman’s films are almost completely devoid of entertainment value. Sure, if you want to watch them and think about how his technical skills are better than other low-budget directors, or think about other directors he’s helped, go right ahead.
Most people looking for entertainment directly from his movies won’t find it.
Stressfactor #80> What you say works extremely well in the live setting that Cinematic Titanic has settled into. My favorite example is the RiffTrax live short Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer. There is no riff they could have possibily uttered that would have worked better than a packed theater just reacting on its own to “Rudolph I need you tonight.”
But TV is a different story. Under most normal circumstances you are watching with maybe two or three other people tops if not completely alone. I think you need the extra “hand holding” of the riffs. I suspect the Brains would agree. Just take my above RiffTrax live example. I seem to recall an interview where Bill admitted to dropping several riffs due to the already happening audience reaction. The point is they were prepared with material were it necessary.
Dan–You make a reasonably good point about the fact that, of course, they’re not watching it for the first time. I’m just talking about the feeling I get, and I can give you an example. Peter Graves has returned to his home to find his wife showering and the lights working. J&tB riff is (paraphrasing here): “Peter! Peter! The SHOWER! The LIGHTS!” Now, that’s not that funny. That’s not really a comment on the movie. What it is is them totally INTO the movie, totally following the plot. Of course, they watch the movie several times and revise the riffs, but there’s always a first time seeing something, and what I’m saying in that comment is that some of that first-time-through feeling seems to me to have survived the editing process. I could be wrong. It could all be an elaborate construction on the writers’ part. But that’s just how it strikes me as I watch it.
As for Corman, no, I’m NOT defending him. This movie is laughably stupid in a lot of places. But, in the case of this one movie, I’m just saying that a lot of people with SOME talent were thrown together and managed to pull SOME feeling out of a mostly terrible script.
How can I not love a movie with lines like “this alien invader happens to be a personal friend of mine.” (I paraphrase a little.) Also, Beverly Garland’s tirades against her husband and the alien thing are priceless. I’m glad MST3K did this film but I never thought the episode was very distinguished; the film is funny enough on its own.
#81: My point was that directors have absolute turkeys in their repertoire that even their fans don’t really care for, some more than others. Was Hitchcock a better filmmaker than Corman? Absolutely. But Hitchcock still made Jamaica Inn. Eastwood still made Firefox. Spielberg still made 1941. Carpenter still made Village Of The Damned. Chaplin still made A Countess From Hong Kong. All dull as dishwater movies as far as I’m concerned. I can enjoy anyone’s films as long as I don’t find them boring.
As far as Corman goes: The Undead? Boring as all get out. Can’t even stand it with the riffing. Gets skipped right over whenever I’m going through a Season 8 choice of viewing. But I like the sheer goofiness of A Bucket Of Blood/Little Shop Of Horrors for instance. The Poe pictures are on the same level as to what Hammer Studios were doing at the same time. Others can sing the praises of Ed Wood’s direction all day or anybody else with a micro-budget and a half-written script. Some of these movies end up with a certain charm, others just become exercises in punishment. The Corman movies done on MST weren’t the greatest examples of filmmaking by any means otherwise they never would’ve been on the show. However, just because you see one thing that you didn’t care for doesn’t mean that everything that director/producer/actor produced is necessarily crap.
The referenced Bill Corbett remarks are a point to take in this regard. What if my only exposure to Bill was knowing that he was involved with Meet Dave? That might skew my perceptions just a tad. Just because Bill co-wrote Meet Dave, it doesn’t mean that everything else he’s ever done is just as disappointing as that movie. Far from it.
Corman made some gawd-awful movies to be certain. But there are some that he directed and many that he simply financed that are good entertaining films.
“Somewhat obscure riff: “Not the craw, the craw!”
Obscure? Not for any fan of 60s TV (which you sort of have to be to be a true MSTiee).
It is, of course from Get Smart. It refers to his arch villain, “The Craw,” er I mean “The Claw.” (not craw).
This is in my top 10 favorite episodes.
I agree with Ben, Corman made some great films that I love to watch over and over, just like Hitchcock. And Corman made some movies I can’t take past the credits. As did Hitchcock. All in all, I thought this was one of his better ones. And the level of riffing was just enough.
And of course who else could have a “Rocket Scientist” in a full slip? That’s our Roger!
I did think watching the Graves monologue THREE times was a bit much. I know the film was short, but come on guys.
That’s Sampo’s Theorem for you, I love the Graves monologue repeating over and over. It’s one of my favorite moments from the entire 11 year run!
The craw reference may be “obscure” nowadays, but in 1991, when this first aired? “Get Smart” was still airing on Nick@nite. I know, I used to watch it all the time. It was a recurring joke on that show, unlike, for instance, “It is balloon!” in ‘Viking Women’, which appeared in one whole episode of F-Troop (Nick was airing that in this period too, and in fact used the “It is balloon!” scene in one of its on air promos for it).
Man, how I hope this one manages to surface on DVD – my copy (dubbed from someone else’s tape) cuts off right at the movie’s end – no repeated speeches for me.
@ JLH #88: IIRC The Claw only appeared in two episodes of Get Smart, both during the first season. Not exactly at the same level as Siegfried objecting to KAOS agents using onomatopoeia.
#85- You can’t blame “Meet Dave”‘s quality on Bill, since that film went through tons of executive meddling and re-writes.
Great episode and short.
I only wish that the stinger included the entire Peter Graves speech instead of just the excerpt.
jimmydoorlocks, you most certainly are not the only one on hear who loves the Bebop. I never picked that up about the clip on the song though. Have to listen in again..
And Roger Corman brought the wonder that is “StarCrash” into the United States, so we can’t totally condemn him.
This is my first post and coincidently coincides with ICTW’s being my first completely watched MST episode back in the early 90’s when the world still made sense to me. Everything was right with this episode from the start: smooth gradual pacing of the short, even the “longest bobsled in the world” signals a quickening of the music’s pace and the jokes seem to come faster to the point of “climaxing” with Crow’s beating with the frozen Barbie-cicle; this only pauses long enough for the title sequence of the main feature before lifting off with the h-e-a-v-y commentary payload. This is the episode that made me re-think the whole science fiction B-movie genre as souce of escape from the less-than-intellectually satisfying contemporary movie landscape. I remember Trace once commenting that there needs to be a sense of serious intent on the part of filmmaker for the riffing to really work, and this was certainly evidenced in the summative soliloquy.
P.S. I see that some of the comments refer to the obscurity of references to F-Troop’s “It is balloon” and Get Smart’s “Not the claw …”. Some of these might be traced to Nick-at-night’s commercials that regularly ran with these very scenes as out-takes as I remeber they were run frequently throughout the evening.
Thanks to everyone and their comments for keeping the show alive.
I’m a bit late to the party on this one, but I love these sort of goofy, overly serious 50s sci-fi flicks. The movie really feels like an Outer Limits episode to me. In fact, the plot’s roughly similar to the first OL episode (loner scientist talks with sympathetic alien over long-distance communicator device, and eventually brings it to Earth). I think this is another episode I think fondly of largely because of the movie, while the riffing is OK but not special. I do admit to enjoying the rare political jabs though.
Sampo, I’m still correcting you about Burn:Cycle being vaporware. It’s not. It came out.
Lee Van Cleef scientist guy is pretty pathetic, but he makes for good 50s sci-fi film fodder. The 1950s, that is.
He wants to get rid of emotions on earth, but forgets about his hot wife until she reminds him of llllove.
Kinda a pre-cursor to Spock, or the high-functioning autism types we see portrayed by Benedict Cumberbatch of late. Sherlock, Turing…
Khan!!!!
I may be in the minority, but I actually enjoy (some) state park jokes. Sometimes it’s funny to remind viewers that the supposedly fantastic alien world is a boring old state park a short drive out of Hollywood. Even when they’re not funny, it’s nice when it seems like J&tBs are invested in the movie too (beyond just making jokes).
I think this is why I enjoy the Joel era more than Mike’s (and CT and RT). It seems like over the years, the prevailing view became that everything said in the theater should be funny as possible. Maybe that does produce a funnier product, but I think it also sacrifices a cozier experience of feeling like you’re actually watching a movie with these odd, funny people. Especially with CT and RT which, imo, feel more sterile, like nothing but watching a bunch of comedians who prepared jokes about a movie.
Just my opinion. I appreciate them all, in their own way.
Since the last time we discussed this episode, there was a Weekend Discussion where we talked about the Corman movies we actually liked.
@ #8 and #53: The Steel Helmet was also produced by MST3K regular L. Robert Lippert.