Movie: (1962) A seemingly fearless college kid must perform a ghastly task to be accepted into a fraternity.
Short: (1939) West bails out of the car before it crashes. Zorka, still invisible, steals another car and escapes. Everybody heads back to Zorka’s, where the Feds revive Monk. Before they can take him in, the invisible Zorka rescues him and the two escape. Back in his secret lab, Zorka shows Monk the mysterious box holding his powerful formula. As Zorka tries to sabotage Mallory’s research, Monk attempts to betray Zorka and make off with the box, but is nabbed by the Feds. As they drive him back to headquarters, one of the Feds starts to open the box, causing nearby power line towers to topple toward the car.
First shown: 11/3/90
Opening: The bots trick Joel into thinking it’s Movie Sign
Invention exchange: The Mads have an oversized “Operation” game, Joel shows off his “pin-bolus”
Host segment 1: J&tB do a commercial for The Old School
Host segment 2: Joel conducts an autopsy on Mr. Hoover
Host segment 3: The bots use subliminal suggestions as they complain about the movie; the Mads send a short!
End: J&tB react to the short; Frank sings “If Chauffeurs Ruled the World”
Stinger: “Weird. I guess that is the word for it. Weird.”
(171 votes, average: 4.01 out of 5)
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• This is a middling episode at best, with the highlight coming at the end as Frank belts out a classic song. The movie really drags everything down. Dumb, bad acting, dark, poorly cast … as Crow says in segment 3, it’s a dog. The short doesn’t help much either, though at least there’s some action. The host segments — all of which are at least mildly amusing — really save this one.
• This episode was included in Rhino’s “The Mystery Science Theater 3000 Collection, Vol. 11.”
• References.
• Joel’s has returned to the teal jumpsuit.
• Tom Servo still has his alternate head.
• In the opening we actually see Joel jump into the hatch that we assume leads to the “spiral on down.”
• The “bonk!-thank you!” bit in Deep 13 is a Firesign Theatre reference. And for you members of the Church of the Subgenius, the Rev. Bob Dobson is also mentioned.
• One of the first things Tom does when they get into the theater is look the movie up in Leonard Maltin’s Movie Guide. As I’ve noted before, in these pre-World Wide Web days, I get the sense that that book was one of their few movie research tools. No, it wasn’t the only movie book they had, but they seemed to default to Maltin.
• The bit at the beginning of the movie with the gate getting closer and closer is a classic example of how a dull moment in the movie into something funny.
• Instant catchphrase: “Puma? Puma!”
• Callback: “Chili peppers…” (Sidehackers) “Puma?” (Joel notes they’re calling back the same movie… ) “It’s the Power Station.” (Robot Holocaust)
• Naughty almost-riff: Movie character says “It’s going to start getting pretty sticky in here in a minute.” The bots start to respond, but Joel stops them. Also: “Why are you sore?” (The bots whistle and try to sound casual.)
• Then-current word/concept: “Wilding.”
• The first segment is another one of those funny but long-winded season 2 sketches. And it would be 13 years before the Will Farrell movie of the same name. And, all these years later, having Garrett Morris as a speaker would not be that inexplicable.
• One issue I have with this episode is the conflicted message about the two overweight characters in the movie. The riffers mock the other characters for laughing at them — then they proceed to do fat jokes themselves. Later they become aggravated with the continued mockery in the movie, but, hey, let’s remember who called them “the fatties.”
• The second host segment is very funny–but a little gross and NOT to be watched while or immediately after eating!
• Yes, the actors playing the college students are all in their 30s, and the first five or ten comments about it were pretty funny. The second 10 or 20 were mildly amusing. The 20 or 30 after that were a bit tiresome. They overdid it, is what I’m saying.
• A commenter below astutely notes a basic flaw of the movie: are the students depicted post-graduate medical students or are they undergrads? They appear to be med students (in which case they WOULD be older, though not THAT old) but the movie has them doing undergraduate things like rushing for fraternities and living in dorms. The movie can’t seem to make up its mind.
• And I would add: what’s with the apparent “no girlz allowd” policy for the medical school? The college is clearly co-ed, so what’s the deal? Sheesh. And what was with that out-of-the-blue swimsuit beauty pageant sequence (other than pure padding)?
• The third segment features the final time Joel asks the bots to play the “give me a good thing and a bad thing for ram chips” game that was a fixture of the first season. They don’t really do it, just focusing on the bad things.
• This is the only episode in which the short follows the feature, necessitating an unusual return to Deep 13 during segment 3.
• Again, the previous episode of the short said this one would be called “Crashing Towers,” but it doesn’t actually appear on this short, so I am not including it in the title.
• And this is also the final episode we will get of “The Phantom Creeps.” Has anybody seen the rest of it who can give us a little synopsis?
• Frank really comes into his own with his first song, the memorable “If Chauffeurs Ruled the World” (featuring the classic Dr. F. line “Oh, push the button, Judy Garland!”).
• Cast/crew roundup: Editor Jodie Copelan also worked on “Night of the Blood Beast” and “Laserblast.” In front of the camera, Eddie Erwin also appeared in “The Amazing Transparent Man.”
• CreditsWatch: For some reason the credits are very different this week: the font size is smaller and there is less spacing. Trace and Frank are grouped together under “also featuring” but the words “special guest villians” (misspelling and all) are missing. Jann Johnson and Alex Carr get credits as “special guest writers.” Trace was the “Creative Pit Boss.” Frank wrote the lyrics to “If Chauffeurs Ruled the World,” and Mike did the music. For some reason, the “Set Design” credit is not included this week. Randy Davis, who was the editor for all of season one, returns for this episode and never again. Fuller Productions is listed as the “online post-production facility,” again it was used all through season one and then appears in this episode’s credits and never again. I suspect those two credits are related.
• Fave riff from the movie: “Cause I’m gonna coat you with bear grease.” Honorable mention: “Because he’s got a squirrel in his stomach.”
• Fave riff from the short: “Hmm. The plot gets weaker over here.”
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I thought they used the Pyschotronic Film Guide for the review, but looking at my copy, the film isn’t even in there. Oops.
Padding padding padding. The movie could barely be a camp fire story let alone feature length. It’s also really dark and makes me wish that the Brains could get a better copy of the film. I don’t hate black & white movies but I have to at least be able to see what’s going on.
Does anybody know when this movie was filmed? It feels much older than its early sixties’ release date.
I will end this reply with a great joke: Fat people sure do love to eat. :-D
For me this is a very forgettable episode. I mean literally forgettable. I go to grab it off the shelf to prep for this week’s discussion and I just couldn’t remember what it was about. And I just watched it for the Turkey Day marathon four months ago. I kind of remember having the same phenomenon when I got it out then too.
But now that I’ve seen it and I remember it yet (for a little while anyway) the thought has occurred to me that as I approach my 38th birthday I’m nearly old enough to play myself if a movie were ever to be made about my high school or college years.
Gypsy does a lot of fainting this season. We lose her not once but two more times during the Mr. Hoover autopsy. But the best part of that segment is the camera catching Crow move the clock ahead.
So what is the deal with the Brains and serial shorts? Just once they should finish what they started. This time we only get three episodes in and again we are left hanging. They don’t quit watching any of the movies half way through. I could have used a few more weeks of Ford Beebee.
I love how Joel drags Crow from theater by the Lacrosse mask.
Favorite Riffs:
Walking around the cemetery: Crow “Plot’s around here somewhere I think.” (We seldom get outright puns from this show so that one took me by surprise.)
The “student” opens the book “psychology of fear” and the J&TB make started noises.
Actually, George Mather, who played Lewis Moffatt, was 42 when this movie came out…
Always thought those serials were drab and weak story telling vehicles. I suspect they were done because they were cheaper than trying do animation. I fear sorry for Bela though. His accent did not not allow him expand his acting range much. Vampires, mad sciencetists and weird characters is all I have ever seen him play.
I’m not too sure which is worse, this movie’s view
of fat people or The Wild Wild World of Batwoman’s
of Chinese (in the seance). :pain:
Wasn’t this movie actually based on an old campfire ghost story? I think it was, and yes, padding aplenty to make a 90 minute movie out of a 10 minute story.
That being said, this MST3K episode is great and the “Mr. Hoover dissection” host segment has me rolling every time.
I forgot to mention in my first post, this movie is historic in that it was the lead off episode of the very first Turkey Day marathon in 1991. An odd choice by the Brains in my opinion.
Gizmonic Temp, I remember my cousin telling me, when we were kids, about a medical student who was locked in a mortuary as a joke…something about an arm being attached to the light fixture, and in the morning, the student was found, with his hair turned white, gnawing on the arm, totally bugnuts. So when I saw this ep as an adult, I thought it seemed familiar; it took me a while to figure out why. If they’d filmed my cousin’s version, it might have made a more exciting movie.
I love the Old School segment and the dissection of the Hoover. Not one of my favorite eps, but I can stand to watch it.
Sampo I have to agree with Bill S. @1. I am certain they used Psychotronic at some point.
I have to disagree with you there. This, to me, is the highlight of Season 2. The riffing is spot on to me and the old people riffs never get old. The storyline itself is so god awfully trite and offensive that it just deserves the riffs. Crow is the highlight of this episode in the theater to me, he nails everyline he speaks and I just can’t keep from laughing. Kevin slowly stops being Josh and at certain points starts showing the brilliance that he would be known for starting with this episode
he cleaned a very dirty carpet
I came to this one with a positive vibe, thinking I had fond memories of it, but I must have been mistaken, I ‘watched’ it again on Monday ( DVD ) and found very little to recommend it. I hang my head in shame and give it ( gasp ) a 1.
it is so dark ( not grim or serious, but actually very hard to see ) that it is difficult to get engaged or to follow ( though it’s a pretty simple story ), and there doesn’t seem to be any where near enough riffing. The host segs are better… life size Operation is priceless, the old school is cute and the vacuum cleaner autopsy is very good.
Is this the last of the Phantom Creeps… ? good, can’t end soon enough for me.
I thought the movie wasn’t too bad, though it was, indeed, very heavily padded. I liked the teaser; it brought back memories of “UFO”. The host segments were good, and Frank’s song was a stand-out.
As for “Phantom Creeps”, I haven’t seen the other parts in a while. But I recently picked up a public domain DVD of the serial for a couple of bucks. I’ll let you know how things turn out.
To me it’s mildly annoying when they mock “over-age” college students, not just here but elsewhere. Have none of them actually BEEN to a college? Adults of ALL ages attend; students can be older than the professors. Oh well.
From the dubious speech at the opening right through to the less than terrifying ending, this certainly is one of the absolute poorest excuses for a movie ever done on the show. That said, like most of Season Two I LOVE this episode. It’s one of those cases where MST3K did some of their best work at making great comedy out of dreadful cinema. I particularly like the host segments, especially “The Old School” sketch and the “Autopsy Reenactment” sketch, just killer funny stuff. This is one of the early episodes that got me totally hooked on MST3K, it was just so different and so clever compared to anything else on TV at the time. When they deliberately pretend flub showing Crow move the hands of the clock during the autopsy sketch and Gypsy keeps fainting over the innards of the vacuum cleaner it never fails to make me laugh. The riffs during the film are fast and hilarious and the cast and the fans would be saying “Puma. Puma!” as a catch-phrase for years to come. 5 stars!
Dark Grandma of Death #9 – The version I’m familiar with is some friends dare someone to go into a graveyard and stand on a grave. As proof they did it, the person is to poke a stick in to the ground, except they poke the stick through their clothing and then into the ground and thus can’t move. BOOM! Heart attack.
This version was in one of the “Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark” books, the ones illustrated by Stephen Gammell. Spooky art for sure! :skeleton:
@ #14: It’s not that MST3K is mocking older college students, they are mocking the fact that the movie(s) is trying to pass off large numbers of older people as young college students, especially in on-campus housing situations as portrayed in Ring Of Terror. Anyone who’s ever been in or near a college dormitory setting knows that the preponderance of students are generally at an age that immediately follows high school. This movie and a few others used on the show, mostly shorts, portray dormitory life in a highly unrealistic manner particularly when it comes to the age range of the majority of the inhabitants.
Another issue with this movie that I found hilariously implausible is that all the medical students are actually about the right age to be in medical school and doing autopsies, all of which is POST-graduate work. Yet everyone in the movie is living on campus and “rushing” fraternities and goofing around as if they are undergraduates mostly between the usual ages of 18-22. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Which is it? Are they young undergraduates in a pre-medical school curriculum or are they post graduate students in medical school? The film maker jumbled up elements of both that simply do not go together AT ALL. :laugh:
@14 Yeah, but when *every student* is in their early forties, something is up. And this is coming from a nontrad.
– – –
This really is where the show starts for me, in terms of their own chronology. I believe it’s the first episode they did which I would want to watch more than one time. It’s not spectacular, but there’s some fairly edgy and energetic material from the riffers, and the movie – while slow – has such a goofy, pointless premise and such awkwardly handled, would-be “grimness” that it provides pretty good traction for riffing.
Puma? Puma! Puma? Puma. Puma? Puma? Puma! Puma? Come to Raygar! Where are you? Puma! Don’t be afraid, Puma. Don’t be afraid! Puma!
This is one episode I like to pull riffs from but have a hard time watching, mainly because of the short coming after the movie. The movie itself feels longer than an average episode movie, and tacking on the short at the end sucks all the joy out of having a short in the first place. I am in the camp that loves the host segments though.
Favorite Riff (Movie): “Very good, now about your waist.” <– Also doubles as one of the naughtiest innuendos they got away with.
Favorite Riff (Short): "It's called a Rubik's cube, don't screw it up!"
Mr. B(ob) #17 – They belonged to the Oldicron Gramma Canta Krappa fraternity perhaps?
Ring of Terror wasn’t a bad episode for me. The characters were funny, host segments blended well with the story and when the movie showed the fat couple eating, you knew Joel and bots would rip into that. Four stars for me.
#2, Tork, good one! It’s very easy to make fun of fat people eating, especially when it’s large amounts of food. Kudos to Joel for ripping into them.
Is this the most blue (color) that BBI ever made the movie?
To answer some questions and issues from above:
1) The movie was made in 1962. This is readily available on IMDB and I mentioned it in my review of MST3K Volume 11 on Amazon.
2) I never really felt that MST3K was taking a lot of cheap shots at the overweight couple in the movie, rather the jokes seemed to be aimed at the film makers for repeatedly using such cheap shots at overweight people as their supposed “comic relief” in the film. The movie just beats those jokes into the ground, forcing MST3K to deal with nearly identical scenes in the film over and over again. I thought they took a pretty good stance on it by ripping into the film makers for that thoughtless, cheap, gag.
As I mentioned above, these post-graduate medical students seem to be terribly obsessed with goofing off and participating in undergraduate hi-jinks. No one in medical school is spending their time rushing fraternities, getting “hazed”, and going to endless mixers and all the other stuff 18-year-old undergrads are often focused upon. It’s pretty bad when the only plausible thing about your horror movie is the that some people get ill when watching an autopsy.
All the ‘kids’ in this movie are 40 years old. It is a bit rediculous. The Caretaker narration at the beginning of the film has a kind of Ed Wood feel to it: it has some point behind it, but comes out all *bleughhhh*.
Fav. Riffs:
“My bones are old, my teeth are gray…” (Great Life Of Brian ref.)
“She’s the gitchiest. Life does begin at forty.”
For me Mr. Hoover’s autopsy was the high point of the episode’s host segments.
Have the Brains ever given a reason for why they had the short after the main feature?
Though it doesn’t have a proper plot summary, here’s the Wikipedia entry for The Phanton Creeps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Creeps
A middling episode true, but the Brains did the best they could with a dull dull dull movie, and the dissection on Mr Hoover is easily one of my top five host segments (that don’t feature songs). The combination of writing and visual humor in that sketch is a perfect example of what the show could do outside the theater.
Fun fact: I started calling my cat Puma years before I ever saw this episode. Maybe all the callbacks left an impression. She’s Pooma, not Pyuma, though. I’m no Donald Pleasence.
As for The Phantom Creeps, I’m always a sucker for Bela, but good riddance to dreary, repetitive serials (for a while, at least).
Yeah, I also love Bela Lugosi. I’m a big fan of the old Universal Horror Classics and I don’t judge any actor I see on MST3K by their work on the mediocre stuff that made it there, but by their better product. Bela Lugosi is fun to watch and we actually bought Phantom Creeps on bargain DVD after seeing it on MST3K. It is goofy fun like many old serials.
If Chauffeurs Rules The World has to be one of their best host segments ever. The silly play on words and puns on driving and “take a back seat to me” are just great fun and Frank and Trace just did a terrific job selling the whole bit. Hilarious the first time I saw it and it hasn’t lost a thing on repeat viewings.
Someone above actually said something about the movie making a point. Trying to make a point and actually having a plausible, meaningful point can be two totally different things. If someone is getting their moral guidance from Ring Of Terror that would truly make it a horror film after all.
One of the dullest movies in MSTidom. No Monsters, zombies, or anything? Just some student in diapers and a fat couple eating out of a wheelbarrel? Grrrr. Still fun with riffing though.
In defense of the movie, the ‘old-people-playing-students’ technique was pretty ubiquitous, so I didn’t think it would look to strange to somebody seeing this in the theater. This is really an example of generation prejudice; my parents were in high school when this movie was made, and ALL of the people in their yearbook look 50, even though they are, in fact, 18. Its funny how a little tweak of the hair, the right eyewear, and some synthetic fiber can make you look old. whew. That said, some actors in this movie were old.
206- The Ring of Terror, w/ short: The Phantom Creeps.
Movie Plot: As part of a college hazing a man his sent to a tomb to steal a mummy’s ring.
Host Segments:
Opening: Crow & Servo trick Joel into thinking it’s movie sign
Invention Exchange: The Dr has Frank locked in a giant version of the “Operation Game”. Joel plays pinball with his innards
Segment 1: It’s the Old School for old students
Segment 2: Joel performs an autopsy on a vacuum
Segment 3: The Bots can’t think of a good thing to say about the movie
Closing: Franks sings the wonderful, “If Chauffeurs Ruled the World”
Stinger: Old student sez… “Weird, yeah I guess you could call it that. Weird.”
Fav. Riff from Movie:
“Lewis B Moffitt…”
Crow: “Sat on a Tuffit.”
Fav. Riff from Short:
Crow: “Well, let’s hope the rear projection holds out.”
Best Segment: “If Chauffers ruled the world, then everyone would take a backseat to me!” “Push the button, Judy Garland!”
Worst Segment: The Good Thing/ Bad Thing throwback is a miss for me
Overall: A lot of MSTies rave about this episode, but this isn’t one of my favorites. The movie and short are boring and tedious. The riffing is very sparse in my opinion. Not a good starter episode for a newcomer. Pass.
Rating: **
Yet another Season 2 classic episode.
I always wondered why the short was at the end of the episode, but I think they stopped doing Phantom Creeps because they were afraid it would get too repetitive.
The movie’s got to be one of the worst they ever did, it’s like a 10 campfire story stretched out to a full length movie.
Ah, fat people eating. That’s gold, Jerry. Gold!
@ #32: “I always wondered why the short was at the end of the episode”
I think that was to tie it in better with the final sketch, “If Chauffeurs Ruled The World”. The two work very well as a way to wrap up the show, but if the short was at the beginning then it wouldn’t be as fresh in the viewers mind as they jumped to the sketch based on it all the way at the end of the episode. Personally, I’ve always thought that pushing the short to the end this one time and then going right into the lengthy musical sketch making fun of it worked very well and had a lot of comedy impact by doing it that way. It punctuates the episode and provides a nice comedy climax for the whole show. I also enjoyed the extra joke they got out of breaking their usual mold of putting the short at the front, it’s hilarious the way Joel and the ‘Bots react to the “surprise” of being told they have that short after the movie.
Sampo: Again, the previous episode of the short said this one would be called “Crashing Towers,” but it doesn’t actually appear on this short, so I am not including it in the titie.
Surely he meant “title”.
Apologies for calling your Shirley.
*you
swh1939–doh!! Thanks for the catch. Now fixed.
I love this episode too. For those that are saying its a bad movie..well DUH , thats why it was an MST3K experiment
Anyway as an episode its funny, I love the autopsy of the Hoover Vacuum segment..as well as in the film itself where the volume just drops ..This is highly entertaining episode to me…
@ Sampo: “Frank really comes into his own with his first song, the memorable “If Chauffers Ruled the World” (featuring the classic Dr. F. line “Oh, push the button, Judy Garland!” ).”
Not to nitpick, Sampo, but since you clearly like to get things right, “Chauffeurs” is misspelled in the topic at top in the line I’ve cited.
I love this movie. Love love love it. I love the invention exchange, the ‘Puma’ riffs, the middle-aged teenagers, the ‘Old School’ and autopsy skits, I love the fat people jokes, I love the crappy black and white, the petrified line readings, the stupid hazing sequence that brings it all to a grinding halt, and I even love how it’s not even really a horror movie until the last five minutes. Love.
Why do I love it? Who can say. I also love the equally uneventful ‘Hamlet’, so draw your own conclusions.
Mr. B(ob) — see, let this be a lesson to you, kids. Spell check. (keep nitpicking!) Now fixed.
Rachel, you had me until you mentioned ‘Hamlet’.
By the way, a little follow-up on 204- CATALINA CAPER. I have been trying (with only partial success) to get the birthdates (and, in two cases, the death dates) for the members of The Cascades, who sang “There’s A New World.” I managed to locate lead singer/founder John Gummoe, who gave me his birthday and told me two members — drummer Dave Wilson and bassist Dave Stevens — have died. (I think I have a death date for Wilson; nothing yet on Stevens). He has no info on his other bandmates.
I asked him if he remembered anything about making the movie and he said: “Mostly what I remember is that we did NOT want to do this song. It was arranged for us and we had no say so. Piece of crap as you [mst3k] so aptly pointed out. and…..the movie was also pretty bad as well.”
This is definitely one of my favorites from season 2 and very rewatchable. The autopsy host segment is one of their best and I love it when we see Crow’s claw adjust the clock and he realizes he was in the shot (which of course he was supposed to be as that’s part of the joke) and then tries to play it cool – very funny! This is also my fave invention exchange overall as the life-size operation game and human pinball machine are very clever and really funny.
Fave riffs:
Servo: “Welcome to America snakey, tell your friends!”
Joel: “As you can see my innards are all lit up.”
Frank: “Don’t look at me! “Don’t ever look at me!”
Joel: “Hey, hi everybody. Oh.” (he says ‘Oh’ realizing the people marching towards the camera are in a funeral procession)
Big guy’s girlfriend upset that the dance was ruined by the autopsy: “They’d rather be with those dead bodies then with these lives ones right here.” Servo: “Tell ‘em Broomhilda.”
Professor Rayburn: “Gentleman, this is your first gastro vascular dissection.” Servo: “At least the first one sanctioned by us.”
I like the ‘Dr. Phibes’ reference Joel throws out during the invention exchange as I love those movies. Also the ‘clown suit’ references are hilarious!
The movie’s title, Ring of Terror, makes me think there is some sort of metaphorical “ring of terror” in which the characters exist, but no, it’s simply a literal title. I don’t watch this episode often, but I like a little more than Sampo does. I like all of the host segments, had I watched this one more often, I might have chosen the Autopsy Reenactment as my favorite host segment based on the movie. Ring of Terror is boring, but I still found The Phantom Creeps to be the duller of the two.
It’s nice to know why Servo’s head looked like this in this episode. I have never seen the previous episode in which Servo gets a “haircut”. It really does look stupid.
3 stars.
5 stars for the simple fact that it was my first episode. A friend of mine, Jeremy, in 7th period drafting and design class told me about it and I made a point to catch it that Saturday at 7pm. I was instantly hooked.
The Hoover autopsy sketch still makes me laugh to this day as do most of the riffs from the feature, but upon watching it this week 37 year old me doesn’t find it as laugh out loud funny as 17 year old me did all those years ago. But it still gets 5 stars for the memories and for introducing me to something that’s entertained me for half my life.
I ran into Jeremy about 2 months ago after not seeing him since 1992 and the first thing I did was thank him for telling me about mst3k all those years ago.
Yeah, well Tom thinks your haircut from 1990 looked stupid too, Mike. :-P
Ang, what’s the Dr Phibes reference? I seem to have missed it.
This one’s pretty decent for me actually. Movie’s ok but I wouldn’t expect much anyway. Short’s somewhat enjoyable but it was getting old so probably for the best that this was the last Phantom Creeps they showed. I like the host segments, all strong for me.
I haven’t seen this one in a while, but I watch If Chauffeurs Ruled the World on Youtube every once in a while. I love that Frank builds up so much confidence during the song and Dr. F just lets him go with it until the very end when Frank starts taking it too far. I also love that Frank continues after being crushed by the cutout of the car.
Loved the creepy caretaker/narrator-
Love Bela-
Love Frank-
otherwise-meh.