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Oh, Snap!

Oh it’s on.

85 Replies to “Oh, Snap!”

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  1. Can’t decide if that’s cute or not classy.

    Hm….

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  2. Adam Strange says:

    Cute or not classy? Dunno,

    Unfunny? Yup.

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  3. The Mighty Drew says:

    In spite of the comment I left on the blog, I was laughing my ass off.

    Class has nothing to do with it. Let’s call it recognition of friendly competition. I don’t think anyone truly wishes anyone else any ill will. (Maybe Mallon does. I dunno…)

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  4. Robyn says:

    To everyone taking this so seriously:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v610/Robyn_the_Red/jokeperkins.jpg

    Come on, the Cinematic Titanic gang are all big boys (and one big girl), I think they can handle a little good-natured ribbing. :wink:

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  5. On the one hand, yes, it’s just a joke. And I certainly think that the CT guys can take it. But I’m not sure how “good natured” it is. There are ways to make the Titanic/Iceberg joke and be good natured, but Bill’s post is specifically couched in a negative light, as “trash talk”. It’s a type of humor that works from a base of negativity and not one I particularly like. Mike’s comments about professional wrestling-style trash talk certainly seemed good natured, and maybe Bill meant this in that kind of spirit. But it doesn’t entirely come off that way, more like he’s actually irritated by CT and trying to hide that behind “good natured ribbing”, but can’t quite do it.

    Maybe because he wasn’t around during the “Joel vs. Mike” wars, he doesn’t realize how things like this can get (and, let’s face it, are getting now). Posting something like that just adds fuel to the fire, whether it be people saying CT “got served” or people like me posting about it.

    So, yes, he was joking. But I, for one, didn’t think it was that funny and I think it will prove to not have been very wise.

    (Of course, I could be wrong and they’re all in cohoots trying to whip the fanbase into a frenzy in a big, Andy Kaufman style meta joke. But I doubt it.)

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  6. Drewsolo "lunchpail" says:

    Is the post from Bill just a “joke” or
    “just a friendly shot at the CT crew” not sure.
    I thought it was funny, basing it off of his humor which is out there. I’m sure he would want his project to do better, as any of us would against business competitors.

    I for one do not have a side, my feelings have always been the same. I think the fans win with both projects, God knows I will be giving CT, and (already)RT a lot of my paycheck. will continue to support them for as long as they run.

    Just like Joel VS Mike I loved all the years on MST. As I will Love CT, and continue to love RT.

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  7. Project 37 says:

    I think that was really for the benefit of the “fans” who insist on perceiving a genuine rivalry between the two completely different ventures.

    Now, if Bill were writing on behalf of The Film Crew, that’d be different. He’s having fun by mocking a certain MST3K fan type, not issuing a genuine diss to the folks at CT.

    The REAL insult is the complete lack of acknowledgment of Mallon’s “effort”. :lol:

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  8. Brian says:

    Maybe because he wasn’t around during the “Joel vs. Mike” wars, he doesn’t realize how things like this can get (and, let’s face it, are getting now). Posting something like that just adds fuel to the fire, whether it be people saying CT “got served” or people like me posting about it.

    That was my problem with it. From what I understand (I came to MST3K a year or so after this) the Great Joel Vs. Mike Flamewar is still a pretty touchy subject. Whether he truly meant to be obnoxious and rude we’ll probably never know, but it was nevertheless an unwise thing to say.

    The REAL insult is the complete lack of acknowledgment of Mallon’s “effort”.

    BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! ROTFLMAO!

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  9. Ben Murphy says:

    I don’t like it. It comes across as mean spirited.

    I love the Riff Trax crew to death, but Joel IS the spiritual leader of riffing (to those of us who started watching 20 years ago).

    It is like manna from heaven to have Joel riffing again in 2008, so there’s no need to dump on the CT effort. Maybe its an effort to divide and conquer the fan base.

    One of the nice things about MST3K, and one of the keys to its longevity, is that there was a heart to it. If the Riff Trax crew get crappy about it, that’s the wrong direction.

    There cannot be enough content from either CT or RT. I hope they understand that.

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  10. Droppo says:

    Anyone taking this seriously is probably missing Bill’s point.

    Just a wild guess.

    OR…you could be right. And Mike could also be literally calling for a steel cage match.

    But, I think that’s unlikely.

    -Droppo, currently the most sarcastic man on Mars

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  11. Droppo says:

    Additionally, anyone notice that Bill’s post offers a link to the “competition.”

    I, for one, am baffled by the idea that MSTies would need to choose sides. Why?

    Who likes MST3K and dislikes Joel, Mike, Trace, Frank or Kevin? I can’t imagine that’s a huge percentage of the audience. We’re talking about the Mt. Rushmore of the show. And now all of them are involved in MST3K-esque projects. It feels like the 2nd Golden Age of the show. And yet, there are still Comic Book Guy-like posts. It’s amazing. But, I guess that’s the brilliance of the Comic Book Guy character. It’s sadly based on reality.

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  12. Nanner says:

    Lol, wow, so much contravercy… for those of you who think this was an outright attack, you are correct! Bill and Joel are bitter, bitter enemies. At parties, Bill pretends like Joel isn’t there. In fact, anyone who associates with Joel doesn’t exist anymore. This rivalry has been kept secret all these years, and it was a bold move on Bill’s part to go public with this. Only time will tell what Joel will do in retaliation. That mild-mannered exterior is a mere guise for his explosive inner rage. This won’t be pretty. Oh Bill, what wrath hast thou incurred…

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  13. AWD! says:

    Yikes… Come on people, this is about love for all mst3k alumni!
    Joel is a great guy and funny as all getout! And Mike is equally fantastic and just as creative in humor. What “competition”?… I just thought these guys were all in different STATES, That’s why they’re doing separate things now. As much as I’d love to see all the guys together, I love their separate but equally funny movie riffing!

    If anything, we should be against the MOVIES, not the people that make fun of them. And THAT’S the meaning of Christmas =)

    Merry Christmas to Mike, Joel, Bill, Trace, J. Elvis, Kevin, Mary, Frank!!! Rooting for you all.
    Happy Holidays

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  14. MLD says:

    It’s stuff like this that makes me dislike Rifftrax even more! Sure, it comes across like a joke you would say to your friend, but come on! You could have used a better type of joke besides something that implies doom/failure for your “Friends”.

    I’m happy that I don’t support Rifftrax in any way, shape, or form. Even if they released DVD’s tomorrow I’d pass. This is like holding your hand out to shake, but then kicking the person in the crotch. Not cool. I hope Rifftrax gets some negative Karma their way for this.

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  15. The Mighty Drew says:

    Wow, people are REALLY missing the point… :shock:

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  16. R.A. Roth says:

    That’s what they get for using the RMS Titanic in their name.

    BTW, people, this is not the beginnings of a death struggle for the future of riffing. It’s a joke. That’s what they do. Joke at the expense of a bad movie, or a bad name, as the case may be.

    Randy

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  17. Droppo says:

    Hooray for Rifftrax and Cinematic Titanic!

    Boo to those who oppose!

    And Happy Holidays to all! (Except those who oppose, of course).

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  18. MLD, Philip Frey, and everyone else taking it way too seriously: it’s what we call a “friendly rivalry.” Did you guys miss the interview (on MSNBC.com) where Mike talked about a WWF-like “competition?” Sure we may look like we’re on opposing teams, but in the end, it’s all in the name of fun and entertainment.

    Stop being so serious, and remember, it’s just an Internet TV show and humorous mp3 commentary website. You should really just relax.

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  19. M Sipher says:

    Wow. So, do people just crave conflict or what? Is it human nature to pick sides over dumb stuff and overreact and arglebargle? Is “Pro-Skub” and “Anti-Skub” really so important? Have we missed the last however-many years of looks at the Best Brains crew, who spent so much time mocking each other and cracking on each other (and themselves)? Did “Fire Paul, Hire Paul, Re-Fire Paul, Paul Killed” and the like pass by everyone?

    Man.

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  20. RAD says:

    Hey all,

    Erik is spot-on. This is being taken way too seriously. Notice the term ‘friendly rivalry’? It really is. These are actually friends. I’m one of the biggest RiffTrax fans ever, and for a very good reason. These guys rock!

    RAD

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  21. Dear Erik,

    Don’t talk down to me. I know it’s just a joke and I don’t think I’ve taken it too seriously. I believe I specifically referenced Mike’s interview and pointed out that I was concerned that Bill’s joke would cause just the kind of rending of garments that it has and he should have known it and not done it. (It’s clear from your comment that you didn’t actually read this entire thread before posting.)

    It’s very easy to say things are “in the name of fun”, but it’s clear that *those* kind of comments are not necessarily going to be taken in the name of fun. If Bill didn’t anticipate negative reactions, then he should take a lesson from this and not exacerbate these kinds of things in the future.

    I’ll say the same thing I always do in these situations: if you are going to put your comments in the public eye, expect negative reactions on occasion. Bill’s comments naturally caused a certain amount of negative reactions, as well as some inappropriate “rah rahs” from Rifftrax fans. I don’t think it’s wrong to point out how damaging this whole thing can be to the fanbase and how Bill’s comments only make things worse. Try to imagine what we’d be talking about if he had posted an honest-to-goodness congratulatory comment instead of his “trash talk”. We’d be talking about how nice it is that all sides are supportive of the others.

    I, for one, do not crave conflict. I have specifically commented on how bad conflict is and I will continue to point out when either “side” engages in activity that only makes matters worse.

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  22. Josh says:

    I for one am siding on the “Good natured ribbing” side of things. It’s all just sort of bluster for the sake of a joke. Remember how Joel went onto a message board back in the day and re-ignited a Joel VS Mike flame war for his own amusement? Same thing.

    And to all the folks who would take offense if the Rifftraxers were ticked? The CT guys (with the exception of Pehl) abandoned riffing of their own accords, while the Rifftraxers kept it alive. Regardless of who was there first, I’d still call it the RT guys’ territory because they stuck with it.

    Of course, all of this is silly argument anyways, because we will now have two sources for our riffing amusement (and as far as I can tell, the Flash MST3krap is gone), so all is right in the world.

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  23. RAD says:

    Philip Frey (aka Rhindle The Red),

    No one was talking down to you. I would urge you to re-read Erik’s post. One thing that I would expect from ANY MST3K fan, is to recognize good-humored poking of fun. Is that not the basis of the whole Mystery Science Theater concept? I know Bill. And he is the coolest, funniest person you could ever hope to meet. I, for one, think his blogs are great. You’ve got friends, Erik, and you know how you take digs at each other… That’s what friends do.

    Seriously, Erik, I appreciate how dedicated you are to both endeavors. We ALL are… But if anything were off-limits regarding comments or playfulness, where would the whole concept of MST3K be? :)

    Best Holiday wishes,
    RAD

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  24. Tork_110 says:

    Frey, shut up. We don’t you to be the Internet mommy.

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  25. @RAD: I assure you, I read it just fine and the attitude was clearly that I was taking it too seriously. I mean, that’s what he said: “Stop being so serious”. But I have not said that the comment bothered me personally. In fact, I believe I said that I wasn’t sure how to take it. Ultimately, though, I came to the conclusion (since proven) that things like Bill’s post only make things worse, rather than better. You can’t just sweep everything under a rug and say “just relax”. My concern has always been to try and *not* have people at each other’s throats, but some will always want to find reasons to fight. Why give them ammunition?

    @Tork: You, on the other hand, clearly need a mommy to tell you how to be civil.

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  26. Kurt says:

    This is how comedians work, they wish for each other’s downfall as a goof, I think it’d be weirder if Bill complimented the Cinematic Titanic crew.

    Troll commenters, you’ve managed to take an inch and make a mile of it. Thank you for giving me a half-hour of reading material, my meatloaf is ready.

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  27. Bobo "Bill Corbett's Mom" Briggs says:

    I keep hearing Bill’s voice from 1001 – “He’s the guy who made us!”

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  28. Philip, I know your intentions are good, and I’m sure you’re all fans here. But believe me, I did read the whole thread, and it’s obvious MOST of you guys “get it” – and that’s good to see! It’s sad that a little good-natured ribbing so easily gets under the skin of some self-described “fans” in this way.

    I work for RiffTrax, but I’m actually looking forward to the CT release. What does that say about me?

    You continue to make assertions that “this is only making matters worse!” but, really, the only reason things become escalated is because fans get caught up in their silly “Mike vs. Joel” debates, which never find resolution because the answer is subjective anyway. It’s the overreaction that causes the most heated debate, when most people who get so worked up about it probably have got everything wrong in the first place. If the guys at CT are deeply offended, I’m sure Bill would make an apology and attest to the fact that “it was all in good fun” and didn’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings, if that be the case.

    I know that because we are all fans, we all have a greater thing in common, something that brought us here in the first place, something whose entire existence relied heavily on the use of snark, digs, jabs, veiled insults, and the like.

    Bottom line is, the preview for The Oozing Skull had a dig at Amy Winehouse returning home from a night of being drunk, and I’m sure contains a lot more comments in the same vein. But will anyone be upset about it? Probably not, unless you’re Joe Don Baker. It’s all in good fun, until someone loses an eye, then it’s fun you can’t really see too well.

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  29. “You continue to make assertions that “this is only making matters worse!” but, really, the only reason things become escalated is because fans get caught up in their silly “Mike vs. Joel” debates, which never find resolution because the answer is subjective anyway.”

    Exactly. Which is why I can’t understand someone posting something that anyone should know would stir things up. It’s not the joke itself that bothered me, it was the decision to post it at this particular time, when things could so easily go bad.

    It’s true; the debate *is* silly. I see both groups for the value that they give (although, as you know, I don’t do Rifftrax). But it’s a sad fact of today’s fandom that things like this flare up. Is it too much to ask that the people actually involved in creating the material not join in the fray? Mocking Amy Winehouse in CT is one thing. I’d be surprised if there’s a dig at Rifftrax in there anywhere. (Mallon, on the other hand…)

    Anyway, you work for Rifftrax and I have done work for Rifftrax’s parent company, Legend Films. (I wrote the text commentary for ‘Plan 9’.) I want to say here and now that they were the nicest bunch of people I could ever hope to interact with across the faceless void of the Internet. I came to them with my idea for the text track at the eleventh hour and they literally delayed the release of the mass market DVD to make it happen. (Whether I was responsible for how long of a delay that proved to be, I was never sure.) So please don’t think that my comments here or elsewhere indicate any bad feelings on my part towards *anyone*.

    I’m officially bowing out of this thread now. I’ve said (and said and said) what I wanted to say.

    Peace out.

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  30. M Sipher says:

    If people never said/posted anything that a fandom could ascribe negative and malicious intent to…

    … would anything EVER be said?

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  31. Rhindle, you do make a good point and I will concede you that. Perhaps Bill’s timing wasn’t the best, and maybe the iceberg pun – while admittedly a tad on the obvious side – wasn’t in the best taste. It did make me laugh and I knew it would stir things up, and maybe that was Bill’s intention. I’m sure he will clear things up in another post.

    Sipher, that’s the strange thing about this. I’ve never seen a group of people who essentially all love “the same thing” be so divided over “the same thing.” It’s a mystery to me, honestly – I love RiffTrax and am eagerly awaiting Cinematic Titanic, so for me, it’s win-win. The scenario you describe is how the Mike vs. Joel, Kevin vs. Josh, Bill vs. Trace, Gamera vs. Megalon, etc. debates started in the first place.

    Anyhoo, best wishes to everyone here, have a safe and happy holiday. Oh and watch out for snakes. (And icebergs.)

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  32. Manny Sanguillen says:

    It amazes me that people so ‘touchy-feely- offended-real-easy’ can be fans of a group of performers who make a living making wisecracks.

    For me, everything is fair game to make fun of or poke humor at. People who are shocked or offended by humorous ribbing just make me all uptight. It takes all kinds though, I guess.

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  33. M Sipher says:

    Erik… never? Really? I’ve seen it happen time and time and time again, no matter what corner of the amorphous blob of internet one calls “fandom” I enter. I left the old MST USENET group during the Mike/Joel brouhaha, shortly after leaving the They Might Be Giants group after the eleventeenth iteration of the “We all should use THIS nickname for the first album!” vitriol-fest (also, I was rather tired of the repeated insistence that Flansburgh is, in fact, Satan himself).

    And Transformers, my primary hobby (to the point of doing official work on the brand… and on that note, curse you, RiffTrax, for making the quips for the live-action movie so hard to top)… if the last decade watching that fandom has taught me anything, it’s that there is nothing, nothing, no matter how inconsequential, that cannot be argued over at length at full volume, as well as be taken by fans as being done purely through malice, incompetence, substance abuse, or any combination of the three. Over children’s toys. It really does make me wonder if there’s some little node in the brain that says to people “CHOOSE SIDE NOW! PLACE BLAME! ROUND ONE! FIGHT!”

    I’m not gonna pick sides on this, because there’s no damn reason to. I think people are overreacting to the same kind of thing the BB crew did to each other for ten years. These are not men (and women) with thin skins, but they do have senses of humor about themselves and what they do. I’ve enjoyed RT’s offerings, and I’m looking forward to seeing what CT can do with some of the… uh… vintage stuff once again. I have nothing but fond memories of everyone involved with MST, and I have no desire to sully them by acting like there’s some spite-fueled gang-war going on now.

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  34. Ninjew says:

    It’s not funny.

    None of it is.

    In fact, making jokes about people in a movie and about the movie is mean and not funny either.

    And making fun of people making fun of people who make fun of movies isn’t funny.

    Let’s forget about Rifftrax, The Film Crew and Cinematic Titanic.

    BRING BACK ELVIRA AND “Attack of the Killer B Movies”

    Now THAT was funny! :mrgreen:

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  35. Adam Strange says:

    …and Happy Holidays to you all – especially Lupita and her little dolly.

    Adam

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  36. Good Lord says:

    Man where’s that cobalt bomb when you need it.

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  37. fireballil says:

    I like the term ‘friendly rivalry,’ it reminds me of the Cardinals and Cubs. It cerntainly isn’t the Yanks and Red Sox, which certainly can’t be considered friendly. Trash talk is allowed in friendly rivalries, and I look forward to the next shot. :smile:

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  38. Tim says:

    Wow. As a MSTie who arrived late in the game (I became a fan in 1998) and missed the silliness of the “Joel/Mike” wars, let me say: yikes.

    It’s jokes, kids. Jokes. Those who are worried that the different camps cracking wise at one another would lead to “flare-ups” should consider how humorous it is that “fans” can get so up in arms as to actually do any “flaring”.

    People getting bent out of shape enough to argue over who was hosting MST3K? And people arguing over whether Bill should make a joke about CT or not? Silly. And borderline scary, to be honest.

    A sense of humor and a laid-back view of life are things to be truly cherished. Merry Christmas, folks.

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  39. Anonymous says:

    I like Toast!

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  40. Droppo says:

    At the risk of hurting feewings (not a typo), Bill is funny. It’s a trait shared by Mike, Joel, Trace, Frank, Kevin et all. Those who got offended by Bill’s joke are quite possibly…not. At least not intentionally.

    What’s odd is that they’re presumably fans to begin with hence their presence on this site. It makes me wonder. What was it about MST3K that made you laugh? How did you relate to its sensibility and miss the mark soooo badly here?

    Joel once said “the right people will get this” in reference to MST3K. It’s an appropriate sentiment today.

    Now, if you’ll excuse me…I have some posting to do on the Blue’s Clues fan forum. There’s currently a heated debate raging over which host is best: Steve Burns or Donovan Patton. Now, THAT’S something to be taken seriously.

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  41. Gamera says:

    Wow, I have never seen so many trolls gather together in one area before.

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  42. Droppo says:

    Was I just called a troll by an enormous flying turtle? I hope not.

    Honestly, to all….I never ever post on any message boards. HOWEVER…I was in such a good mood when I saw that CT was being released. And then I saw and really laughed at Bill’s post. Life was good. I thought I would read the comments of my fellow MST3K fans and we would all enjoy a hearty collective laugh. Instead, I was horrified to find that there were several folks (albeit a small sampling) that were acting like the Comic Book Guy – criticizing, complaining, passing judgment. IT made me mad. It made me mean mad. Well, not really. But, it did annoy me. And so I felt moved to respond and defend my beloved heroes. Does this make me a troll?

    Yes? Oh. Darn. Well, I assure you my intentions were pure.

    Happy Holidays from Droppo!

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  43. Orsen Klang says:

    Joel is better than Mike! No! Mike is better than Joel! Wait a minute! It’s a candy mint!

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  44. Droppo says:

    Speaking of (and appropriately for the holidays)…

    the first episodes I ever saw were the 2 Santa Claus movies. CC was airing them as a double feature and I believe Santa Claus was debuting for the first time. I watched and loved Santa vs. the Martians. I then was really surprised that there was a different host for the next episode. But, it was great b/c I had no preconceived notions.

    I loved both episodes. And I loved both Joel and Mike. From that point on, I began recording every midnight repeat and loved both eras of the show. If I had watched the Joel years as they happened, it probably would have been jarring to experience a change and lose such a beloved character. But, I believe I was lucky enough to discover it perfectly. One episode of Joel. One of Mike. Both classics.

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  45. Gamera says:

    Droppo, I wasn’t actually referring to you….I was mostly referring to the “I hate Rifftrax” bed-wetters out there. Bill threw a little snowball at the competition…big deal.

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  46. Droppo says:

    Why thank you, Gamera. You’re a gentleman and I’ve always been a fan of your charitable works with Japanese children.

    Again, I’m not really a message board kind of a guy. But, I felt moved to speak up for those who actually support the comedy stylings of the MST3K cast and crew. Odd to do that on a MST3K fan site, I know. But, I’ve never been one to avoid controversy!

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  47. TheUnabeefer says:

    They must have been Go-Bots kids… :wink:

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  48. U.J. Lessing says:

    MST3krs haven’t gotten this excited about an issue since 1992: when a massive argument took place on the usenet over whether or not one of the doors to the theater said “pizza” when it opened and closed.

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  49. Natureboy says:

    “They must have been Go-Bots kids… :wink:”

    More like the the type of kids that had babysitters until they were 17 and was constantly getting grounded for eating the contents of their own diapers

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  50. Jesus Thinks You're A Jerk says:

    The irony, of course, being that Rifftrax is the sinking ship.

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