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RiffTrax.com Offers MST3K EpisodesRiffTrax has begun something called “MST3K Mondays,” where they will offer episodes of MST3K for about $10. These versions will include a new introduction by Mike. They started it off this week with “The Pumaman” and “The Final Sacrifice.”
Well, there are lots of places you can get episodes of the show, so, want a good reason (beyond Mike’s intros) to get them at Rifftrax.com? In an mass email, they noted:
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I wonder if there’s beer on the sun?
That makes it sound like they never got paid.
From what I understand…. they did at the time. But they certainly weren’t earning insane cash.
And they didn’t recieve any residuals on the series later from DVD sales or what have you.
From what I’ve heard, they were paid to make the episodes, but no residuals from the enduring popularity of this show – until now.
As soon as I saw that, my first thought was ‘Hey, Bill can actually get some residuals!’. I remember in an interview somewhere him saying he never made a dime from MST3k after the show ended, but I didn’t realize that Mike & Kevin were in the same boat.
Makes me wonder, did something happen with Jim Mallon, or is this just a deal between Rifftrax & Shout?
And does this have anything to do with the road work over at mst3k.com?
I’m not sure what is going on presently (who bought out who etc…), but until now only Joel and Jim have been earning residuals.
Jim Mallon not sharing residuals with the on screen talent for years really comes off as greedy. Not denying his importance in greenlighting the show and not saying he shouldn’t prosper from it. But for a guy who drove away Hodgson and whose creative input was probably negligible at best he should have realized that cutting the major talent in on some of the action was the decent thing to do.
Is Jim the only one who gets residuals at all? No one else has a piece of BBI?
Jim can’t be making that much money from the DVDs either if he had to take up a job as psychiatrist.
Jim probably knew that cutting the other Brains out of residuals would drive them away (Bill has also said that they’ve approached Jim about negotiating new deals to make a LITTLE bit of money off MST3K and Jim has always said no….. at least until now apparently), but you have to look at Jim Mallon, not as a creative person, but as a manager. Managers are usually not concerned about what friends they lose. They may feel left out by the others, but if it comes between “losing all my friends” and “having a butt-load of money”, someone like Jim would always pick the latter.
Don’t discount a genuine change of heart. I didn’t know he was a therapist now. I searched his profile and he mentioned the death of a child. Perhaps he has matured and is embracing this new career. Part of that maturity/acceptance may be cutting ties with the old Jim. Part of grief might teach us that people matter more than the bottom line.
I believe that people can change, and I choose to give people the benefit of the doubt. I hope Jim has had his awakening.
I hope MSTies can embrace him if that’s the case. Jim Mallon’s heart grew three sizes that day.
Joel gets residuals too. I *thought* Kevin Murphy did too since he had part ownership of BBI as well. I guess not.
I *almost* see all this as Jim making some kind of attempt to mend fences.
Good points all, though do keep in mind that part of the reason Joel left was because Jim wanted to direct the MST3K movie. It’s like Jim wanted to play both parts, creative and managerial. If you’re going to try and be “one of the guys” you better take care of them a little or you’re going to be reviled as he currently is.
No. When BBI was formed in ’89, the company was split thus:
Jim-45%
Joel-45%
Trace-5%
Kevin-5%
When Joel left, it can be assumed that he gave at least 6% of his share to Jim, as Jim has outright control of the company.
Kevin has confirmed he gets a residual, but Trace hasn’t confirmed yet. I assume he still does, unless he gave up his percentage a when he left.
And, per the last figure I can find from around 2008, BBI made ~$280,000 a year. Its probably more than that nowadays.
Not a small sum, and 51% of that is enough to live comfortably on. So the idea of Jim NEEDING to become a psychiatrist to get by is laughable. I understand it’s a field he’s genuinely interested in, and the job makes him happy and keeps him busy.
I seem to recall Joel stating once that his idea at first was to hire an established filmmaker, who was also a fan of MST3K, to help produce, and direct the film, but Mallon felt they should keep the film close-knit and not hire much outside talent feeling an established filmmaker might try to take over the project too much to add their own stamp, which would have certainly created problems with the writing team (Kevin, Trace, Mike, etc.). And, I think Jim felt, “I’m the only one here that’s actually directed a film, and I’ve directed most of the MST3K episodes anyway, so…..”
It’s one of those instances where both sides had a point. Joel was right that they should have someone like Spielberg (who is a fan of the show) backing the film because Spielberg might have helped them keep a little creative control on the project…. but Jim was also kinda right that too much of an “outside force” could hinder the project too much (just *look* at what the Gramercy suits did with the finished film!)
In hindsight though, as you pointed out, Jim was taking on a HUGE responsibility directing the film AND producing it (Jim did say dealing with execs and running the film did exhaust him greatly), so…. maybe Jim should have remained a producer, and maybe have Mike or Kevin direct (I can’t recall if either of them had directed any episodes prior to Joel’s departure. I thought Kevin did).
I did see that Jim lost his daughter which spurred his second career. That’s something I did not know about him. So if it is indeed him reaching out to make amends I know personally I would look on the guy a little different.
While there are plenty of outlets for purchasing online streaming episodes of MST3K — some for more than $10/episode, some for less — this does offer two things you won’t get from other sources.
As stated, RiffTrax would get a share, as the seller. If for no other reason, I’d feel better knowing that, and buy from here rather than other places.
But, and this might be really important for some, all downloads from RiffTrax are DRM free. That does not mean you can up and share it with your cheap, greedy friends. No no no. Not at all. (If they get mad, you probably need better friends, anyway.) It means that you aren’t limited to playing it on a certain player. For instance, an Amazon purchase must be played in an Amazon app or on an Amazon device. An iTunes purchase must be played in an iTunes app or on an Apple device. The RiffTrax downloads? You can play them on anything, including on a tablet or phone (Android, iOS, Windows), or on a Mac/PC/Linux device. Or locally on your Roku if it has a USB port. The possibilities are endless!
Oh, I said two things, right? Well, that’s two. But the third and final thing of the two is the intro by Mike that he recorded in front of the stairs. Yay! 43 seconds of top quality stuff you don’t already have!
I bought The Final Sacrifice and had no trouble importing it into iTunes. So, yeah, it works.
First mst3k.com goes silent. Then the Rifftrax guys announce they have a new deal with BBI. Now Joel is doing an AMA. My hunch?
Jim is happy and successful in his second career and sold some portion of his rights to Joel. Enough to give Joel control. Why would Joel re-work the residuals? The fan in me hopes he’s just a good guy and everyone who contributed deserves a piece of the action, especially the creators of a show he’s going to continue. The rest of me thinks he’s going to need their assistance some day.
We’ve been told new MST3k is coming (some day). Rifftrax has an in place distribution system and is THE place for MSTies to buy riffing (but remember Sampo’s shop, Christmas is coming…). Make amends with the rest of BBI (or at least the RT guys) and they’re now incentivized to sell “his” show on their site.
Do you need me to say that I have no further knowledge beyond what’s on this site? It’s just a guess, but it sure feels right to me.
They also play perfectly on a PS3! Any more, that’s all I use my PS3 for is to watch Rifftrax (and DVDs – My PS3 has issues with blu-ray movies, so I use my PS4 for those).
If Mallon gets money for sales, he can’t hope for that continuing much longer as it currently is. Vast majority of episodes are on DVD now. It’s going to get trickier obtaining the rights for the episodes that remain unreleased on video. Even if they somehow are able to clear them all, we’re sitting on only about three years of new releases left. Clearly some new strategies need to be considered.
To me, this is a wild move and seems somewhat ominous. I’m skeptical of the idea of a new MST3K anyway, but in addition to that I’m very much a physical media guy and they’ve been talking about it having a download price to view the new show. I only get Rifftrax when I see it on physical media even because I want something to display. If they want to try putting a new MST3K out there that’s pretty cool, but reboots so rarely work well that I’m not exactly sold on the idea. I would hope to check it out first on free streaming and get DVDs if I think it’s worth it.
I don’t know how all of the residuals are calculated and distributed. It’s none of my business, and I’m rotten at math, anyway.
I will say this: it was the source of a funny moment during the cast Q&A at the St. Louis Gateway Convention in 2000. A fan asked about residuals, prompting sarcastic laughter from Mike, Kevin & Bill, followed by comments about how they light their cigars with $100 bills. Bill then commented, “Compared to the ‘Gilligan’s Island’ people, we got screwed.” And he didn’t sound angry when he said it.
I just want everybody to be civil towards each other. And if the story about Jim losing a child is accurate, he has my deepest sympathies.
Okay, my earlier comment probably sounded pessimistic. So I’ll restate my perspective on the “future of MST3K” to clarify: Let’s wait and see. Pretty much how I look at the new Star Wars movie too. I’m content with what we’ve had before and if that’s all I get that I think is great stuff then I’m happy regardless. I’m not going to jump on the bandwagon and hype myself up now only to be disappointed later because it wasn’t as good as I imagined. Let’s just wait and see how it goes. Wait and see, and I’ll probably end up liking it.
I’m sure that Jim losing a daughter is accurate as it is on his bio on the Birch Counseling site. Though it paints a sad picture of the state of his relationship with fans and cast members. That someone so closely associated with mst3k could have suffered such a loss and it was barely known puts things in perspective.
By the way, an intrepid guy on reddit uncovered that best brains is now listed as a prior company in MN. Something is definitely going on.
Which explains why they’ve had to pimp their cult-of-personality from the show, like Stan Lee not owning the Marvel Comics characters for the same reason.
And, like Lee, turn out second-rate “From the creator” cult-of-fandom knockoffs just to generate something that pays royalties, and show up anywhere they’ll pay him for a cameo.
(Okay, over the years, we’ve now compared RT-era Mike to Eric Idle, Ringo Starr and Stan Lee, any other washed-up past-show-leeching celebrities looking for a buck we can use? Just to keep things fresh.) ;)
Wil Wheaton?
Wil has carved his own niche separate from Star Trek in his advocacy and involvement in tabletop Rpg’s and boardgames.
Wow, that seems a bit harsh. I think the Rifftrax and CT folks have done stuff that’s completely on par with what they did with MST3K. Not everything, no. But not everything MST3K did was a gem either. And I love having new stuff to watch. With Stan Lee, all you get is Stan Lee standing around looking for his paycheck. Not really the same.
Something that just occurred to me. Mary Jo and Bridgett have been doing some Rifftrax projects lately, so…. I wonder if they’ll be in on this new deal.
I also am hoping this doesn’t spark any kind of resentment from Josh, Trace, Frank, or Paul, or anyone else that worked on MST3K but doesn’t have any connection with RT.
where does all this leave Paul Chaplin?
Well, that and Lee putting his name onto some other lesser original superhero pilots from his own production company that just reminds you how much better the original characters were (no, I didn’t mention Stripperella!) Which was the point of the whole RiffTrax metaphor.
Although RT technically started out as Legend Films trying to use MK&B’s surviving cult-of-fandom act as an excuse to sell more cheap colorized PD, and Film Crew was an excuse for Shout Factory to wonder whether they should get the rights to the original series back or not. So they might not have technically been Mike’s own George Takei acts, although we can’t say as much for the short-lived Cracked.com columnist gig.
“We”? Speak for yourself, pal. What a trashy and crass post. Do you just hate fun or do you simply enjoy taking potshots at people who are for the most part simply trying to make a living and ya know, actually ENJOY their respective professions? CT and Rifftrax are not collectively poor “knock offs,” most people would agree that they both feature solid writing (although RT sometimes has a few too many “juvenile” scatalogical lines for my taste, but whatever) and are genuinely funny products which have brought many MSTies and even more than a few non MSTies a lot of joy over the years. If CT and Rifftrax were just cheap “knock offs” with no sincere care or craft put into them they wouldn’t have both been as successful as they were. And you can’t use the “oh it’s just public appearance fueled” with Rifftrax as 99% of their presence is online, Comic Con is one of the few times Mike, Kevin and Bill turn out for public signings. I went to CT twice and at each show you could feel the enthusiasm mutually shared between Joel and crew and the fans both on stage and at the signing table. But anyways, as “the Dude” would say, “That’s like, your opinion, man.” I’m sure you must be really looking forward to the reboot which will surely be just another cynical “knock off” being launched for no other reason than for the other Brains aside from Jim to have their existences monetarily validated so they don’t continue being a bunch of “leeching celebrity Stan Lees types”! Seriously, wow. What a trash post. And why all the Stan Lee, George Takei hate and general con bashing? Is that your personal anteater or something?
Just gotta say — I’m a Rifftrax fan through and through, and any MST without them is likely to fall a little flat.
I think the RT crew is at the top of their games, riff-wise. CT didn’t appeal to me much — it needed more Mike.
Missing. At least that’s what I’ve heard.
Didn’t know anything about Jim’s loss or second career until now. Both of which definitely make me look at him a lot more sympathetically. And by the way, a few people have called Jim a psychiatrist, but I looked at his Psychology Today profile and he’s a licensed professional counselor (LPC) with a degree in counseling. So not a psychiatrist (who would be a medical doctor who prescribes and monitors psychiatric medications). Sorry to get wonky about it, but I’m sure Jim refers to himself as a therapist or counselor in his new profession.
And by the way, didn’t Toolmaster Jef Maynard also go into a psychology-related field? His Twitter bio calls him a “dr. of psychology.”
Jim’s family loss has been known for years. I definitely sympathize with him on that but losing a family member shouldn’t negate a person’s ability to still do right by their family, friends and colleagues.
Hm — I suspect that this news coming right before Joel’s tweet about Turkey Day and the future of MST3K is not coincidental. This will probably mean Mike, Kevin, and Bill are going to be a lot more amenable to guest appearances.
I remember that, at the beginning of last year’s Turkey Day marathon, Trace-as-Crow said a line, then Joel made an adjustment to him, then he said the same line again in the same voice. That always seemed weird to me, and I assumed that they wanted to use Bill’s voice for the first line (Joel is switching Crow’s voice back from Bill to Trace, get it?), but Bill declined to contribute even a single line.
BUT that’s entirely speculation on my part, so please nobody go repeating it like it’s a fact, just a Maybe.
It bears noting that, in the original posting, the word “and” is bolded and italicized. As in, “This is finally a chance for Mike, Kevin and Bill to benefit from their work on Mystery Science Theater 3000 thanks to the help of our fans!” I’m not sure what the emphasis on the word “and” is meant to imply, but one way of reading it is that Mike and Kevin were getting some sort of profit-sharing but Bill wasn’t. No way of knowing for sure, though, unless they come out and say as much outright; I’m seeing a lot of speculation in this thread (including some from myself!) but no primary sources.
I would like this ten times if I could.
MST3K fandom is, by and large, one of the more positive and friendly fandoms that I’ve come across. I think that’s a precious thing that shouldn’t be taken for granted. Let’s try to keep it that way, no?
@#11 – had no idea that Jim had a death of a child (or that he was now psychiatrist, for that matter), that is a terrible tragedy for anyone. Wasn’t the miracle growth baby in show 306 his? How awful if right on the heels of Mike Dodge’s passing, we discovered that this had indeed been the first death of an mst3k onscreen talent and we had never even known.
Thanks for this. Yes times 1000!
The baby from 306 was Jim’s son, Eli.
It may mean nothing. If you’re on the Rifftrax mailing list, you’ll notice all of their e-mails have words that are (seemingly) randomly bolded. I’ve never noticed any special significance to the vast majority of those words.
That sums up EricJ the Mike-Hating Joel Sycophant in a nutshell.
It’s in all-caps on the Rifftrax site, too, but you’re right, it doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
Ultimately, it sounds like we don’t know for sure who had a profit-sharing agreement and who didn’t, except for the people who’ve explicitly stated that they did or didn’t. Bill and Mary Jo have both definitively stated that they didn’t; I’m not sure about the rest of the cast and all I know is speculation from threads like this one.
Looks like our resident grouch has got the monkey cage rattled again. Don’t let him get to you. EricJ is just being being EricJ. He seems to like being in a bad mood and just wants to share his joy with us. Bless his twisted little heart.
EricJ has been trolling here for so many years that creating a unique name for the disorder would be justified.
You’ve got your Misties, but then you’ve got your Play Misty For Me’s.
Unbalanced fans make weird noises.
That’s why I have a license to carry.
Despite my fan base being absolutely minuscule compared to the Kingdom of MST3K, I will never forget the John Lennon incident.
Signing copies of my obscure, low-selling little novella shouldn’t be cause for any concern, but sometimes it is, and that’s usually due to someone I don’t know from Adam throwing a tantrum on Twitter for reasons that make sense only to him or her.
Why would anyone follow me on Twitter if they have a problem with me/don’t like my work?
It’s unhealthy.
Stop it.
I really don’t care what the reasoning is/was and the old refrains of “oh well, let’s just let trolls be trolls” or “that person isn’t really rude, they’re just kind of like the cranky old man down the street” shouldn’t be mantras or excuses that fly around here.
Danzig II!
When I first heard this, I was pessimistic, thinking perhaps RT was getting a little desperate. I’d hate to think they were in a state where they were really scraping for more revenue, because this year has been awesome for RT. The Crappening has been great, and Roller Gator….I haven’t laughed that hard in a long time.
But all these responses are making me believe that this is about equity and not desperation. So great! Everyone wins! Huzzah!