What references or assessments made in the show or ACEG do you disagree with? I mean, not everyone hates high energy prop comic Carrot Top or there wouldn’t be anyone going to his shows, right? Maybe there are MSTies that love Gallagher, Carrot Top or Jim Carrey. My personal disagreements with the writers are minor in nature. I may stand alone on this (like Tom and his affection for “Blanksy’s Beauties”) but Jim Varney was not as terrible as they implied. Of course the Ernest character was idiotic but he took it and made a very funny Saturday morning show back in the late ‘80s. It was on the air at about the same time as “Pee Wee’s Playhouse.” It only lasted one season and was silly at times, but also sly and satirical (sound like any other show you know of? Hmmmm?). My other dispute, even more minor, is that in ACEG Michelle from “Girl in Gold Boots” is referred to (I think by Paul Chaplin) as “zaftig’. Whenever I watch that episode, I think to myself ”I should be so zaftig”
I have one I mentioned in the episode guide: I’m a huge Counting Crows fan and, while Adam’s “wounded soldier of love” schtick can wear a little thin after a while, in general I don’t find it, or the band, repellant. The bit was still funny, though.
Is there any riff or observation where you disagree?
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Not sure if this really counts, but during Hired the Musical, Joel says “Roosevelt declares war!” He couldn’t possibly have done that, as congress is the only branch of the government with the power to declare war. Would it have been that hard to say “Congress declares war!” instead?
In the pre-movie commentary to Space Mutiny dvd Collection (Number 4?) Mike Nelson is
pretty dismissive of the movie and cinematographers. I thought
it was one of the better produced and written movies in the
run of the show, especially given the youth and inexperience of the cast.
Kudos to the citizens and officials of Rutland, Vermont.
Btw, maple syrup afficionados should visit. They’re
giving the stuff away.
Not quite the same but it bothers me every time when they reference the movie “Alive” by saying something about a soccer team eating each other. It was a rugby team, maybe I’m just missing something.
No question, all the RenFest hate. I can understand that they won’t appeal to everyone, but jeez! Certainly my experience with RenFests indicate that the typical quality of the acts are nowhere near as ameteurish as they imply. I can only imagine that they’ve either improved with time (my first RenFest was sometime in the late Nineties) or East Coast RenFests are more professionally run than those in the Midwest.
I really get mad when the Brains make fun of a person’s appearance. I’ll admit there are times when I chuckle at one or two of their jokes but when they go out of their way to insult David Hartman in “San Francisco International” and Frances Nyuen in “Code Named: Diamond Head”, I thought they crossed a line from funny to just plain mean. Not to mention how merciless they are with Joe Don Baker.
It’s one thing to make fun of a person wearing a doofy outfit or is trying WAY too hard to look sexy and failing, celebraties will sometimes bring the teasing on themselves, but to make fun of their face or how they were just born looking like that is never funny.
@ck (#2) – I believe you mean Time Chasers.
I know their music has not held up well over the years and I hate to admit it but I still like YES! Even if Kevin can’t stomach them. I know I have a problem and need help. Going to listen to Starship Trooper again!
To reference the appearance comment, “sorry about my face” Arch Hall Jr. Having seen him a few years ago, he has matured into a fairly good looking gentleman, in an Eddie Arnold kinda way. And that he was perfectly pleasant to all he talked to sealed the deal. No one will ever confuse his musical talent with the Rolling Stones, the songs were typical of a time (after the first wave of rock and roll and pre-Beatles) and sound alright in that context. One final point: we think he shares certain pinched face expressions with Taylor Lautner; we know who we’d rather have dinner with (and it ain’t that “Twilight” guy).
#7 I’ve always been mystified by their dislike for bands like Styx, Yes and other prog rock bands too. Just not their cup of tea I guess. Joel and his dislike for Dennis DeYoung is legendary. Did the guy run over Joel’s dog or something?
I dislike one-sided political attacks. Geesh, we get enough of that in real life, I don’t want to hear it when I’m trying to relax and enjoy MST3K. Inevitably, those on the right suffer the most attacks, but I don’t mind as long as things are balanced.
I know it’s difficult sometimes, but it must be remembered that not ALL fans of the show are Democrats, and it can get a bit heavy-handed at times (much more so at CT shows, I must admit)…..
Ray Davies’ song “It’s a New World”, performed by the Cascades in Catalina Caper, was not as terrible as Joel & the ‘Bots indicated it was. However, the Cascades were pretty goofy, particularly the drummer, who looked a lot like Jackie “The Joke Man” Martling….
#4 – You’ve never been to the Kansas City RenFest, I assume. It’s by far the best I’ve ever been to. The only problem is it doesn’t change much. I went there for 10 years straight, and only saw about 2 new rides & 3 new acts.
As much as I do enjoy a good RenFest, I still find the jokes hilarious.
Also, no sentient organism could feel anything better than loathing for Jim Carrey.
My major disagreement is their making it seem that all anime & manga is tentacle porn & Sailor Moon. Surely at least Kevin has seen Miyazaki’s movies (Nausica, Laputa, Totoro, etc..). These movies are loved by millions all over the world, and have won many awards.
There are hundreds of fantastic anime movies & series. I pretty much live for the giant robot genre (Mazinger, Gundam, etc…), and while a lot of things in these shows might be called silly, it’s all done in an over-the-top dramatic way (which is much of what I love about them). Watch Giant Robo: The Day The Earth Stood Still, and tell me it’s not a work of genius (it helps of course if you’re at least passingly familiar with all the source material used for it).
I still like Lisa Loeb and Crash Test Dummies (there’s much more to them than their respective big hit would indicate), but since I have a sense of humor, I found MST’s take on them funny. Of course, even when they skewer something I’m fond of, or express an opinion about something that is the opposite of my own, I remember that it’s just a show, and relax.
I often disagree with them, in all eras. Yet, this is the beauty of the show. JT&B or MT&B start the fray, and, we can talk back to them.
In response to what Janelle said, I agree. Michele was not zaftig. She was perfect weight, und “zaftig” partially means “plump”. She was not plump, by any means.
As for me, I would have to say, they really pushed John Phillip Law and James Ryan aside in “Space Mutiny.” The truth of the matter is, those two were doing some pretty damn good acting! I could feel the pleasure they were feeling, and I always laugh evilly along with them in their little scene that they have together.
This is a Rifftrax era beef: I love the Star Wars movies, all of them. The Ep 4-6 riffs are probably some of my favorites and some of their best work. But the Ep 1-3 Riffs are downright mean spirited. Its one thing to make fun of something you hate (Manos, Birdemic, etc.), but they just seemed angry about having to do them and it really comes out in the “jokes”.
Also my father and I like Jeff Dunham. So I notice when they slam him. I try to chalk it up to “professional competition” between prop/vent’ comics.
That’s all I can think of atm.
@12: I’ll second that on their anime riffs, though like I said way back in the Prince Of Space discussion, it’s mostly a generational thing, and I can’t fault them too badly for “not being there”. Having a positive opinion of anime in general likely has a lot to do with being a child or adolescent in the mid-’80s, when tons of Giant-Robot/Mecha/Space-Opera shows were being imported (mutilated) to cash in on Star Wars, and the late Carl Macek began showing Americans the non-kiddie-fare we’d been missing. For those too young to remember that, kids whose first exposure to anime was in the late ’90s, the gulf between the slew of pocket-monster shows and Toonami’s lineup that paved the way for Adult-Swim (now Toonami again) likely prevents a universally positive view of anime, but at least they’ll always understand that it’s not a homogenous slew of hentai.
I just take it that the Brains made fun of a lot of things, and often in a playful manner. My assumption was that they may have even enjoyed some of the things they mocked (The Del-Aires for example), but kept going anyway.
I remember that the Brains had some pet peeves, and one major one was one-note, flavor-of-the-month comedians. Joel never seemed to care for show business, so I guess the usual gushing over someone who just wasn’t that funny (followed by endless movies that we’re terrible too) got to them. History has proven them right a few times: Pauly Shore was actually taken seriously circa 1992, for crying out loud.
But I will also agree that Jim Varney was very funny, and a great guy from what I hear. Some of his “redemption” came after a slew of middlin’ Ernest movies (although the Christmas one is a total blast) and he did a great job on Toy Story.
I’m going to say these two things and then hang my head in shame. i agree with #10 GregS about the political stuff. Also, i disagree with the Brains about Styx and Rush, their collective works aren’t for everyone for sure, but I don’t know that they deserve all the hate that they got. there, i said it, and i’d say it again if i had to.
I have trouble with this topic, as I view the riffing as in the same vein as in roasts — you’re not supposed to agree with what they’re saying, you’re supposed to appreciate the quality of the joke construction and delivery*.
In that light, the one type of riffs that begin to grind on me are the “mis-hearing” riffs — half of the time there’s no way, even if the audio were significantly more degraded, that the track actually sounded like what they pretended to hear.
The one case where it really worked well was in Pod People — “Idiot Control Now” was truly indecipherable. But I always had trouble when they used that bit when the audio was perfectly clear.
*which, btw, is why I can’t stand most of the Comedy Central roasts — they seem to have forgotten the delivery part. And they could work on the construction a bit more too. Then there’s the quality…
After reading all responses so far, I still had to do an internet search to find out what ACEG stands for (Amazing Colossal Episode Guide, MST3K).
Anywho, remember the original Saturday Night Live and now South Park? Nothing was sacred from riffing, they’d go out of their way to joke about a subject, no matter how beloved or how controversial.
I have no beef with MST3K or Cinamatic Titanic, but Riff Trax – many times I just don’t get their jokes.
Forgive me for not having anything to add on topic.
E Just E (#7): It’s not just Yes, I think, that they slam, but prog rock in general (and proggish bands like Styx and Rush). The Brains are all old enough to have been adolescent prog fans in the early 70s, so I imagine some of their dislike comes from their own embarrassment at having taken that stuff so seriously–as, I confess, I did at one time. I still like to dig out my prog albums occasionally (Jethro Tull and Gabriel-era Genesis are my personal faves), but I’m aware that my already-low coolness rating drops to near-zero every time I do.
I have a friend who fences and who has participated in RenFests–it’s hard to hear her talk about it without thinking of the Brains’ hate for leather mug vendors, or of poor Mike draining his bank account at the SOL RenFest. It’s not a big deal for me, but I really have no idea why they were so down on them. It does seem to go beyond gentle ribbing at a pretty arcane aspect of nerd culture, and into something personal.
I agree with the comments about appearances, but there’s one line of humor that always bugs me. Whenever– and I mean EVERY time– a performer is on the heavy side, they make jokes about the person eating uncontrollably. Probably the worst of it was the director from Overdrawn At The Memory Bank– nonstop eating and burping jokes, and yet not once do we actually see that character eating in the movie. They really had a problem with big people, and I don’t get it. Mary Jo never thought to rein them in a little? Kevin doesn’t exactly cut a svelte figure himself.
I get that it’s comedy and not meant to be taken too seriously, but it grates on me. I mean, if they made jokes about having to protect white women every time a black man appeared on screen, we would be appalled at that kind of bigotry. Yet for the fat people, they just pass along the same old hate.
Hey, I LIKED “Willow”!!!
@10: True, but who doesn’t love the opening line from The Phantom Planet: “Pat Buchanan’s First Day as President.” It was a little one sided sometimes, but at least it was not over the top.
@20: My favorite was always “Johnny Long Bone”, we all knew they heard “Johnny Long Bow”. But yeah, I enjoyed it.
@23: Yeah, the fat jokes got old fast. It’s really not funny when you spent a lifetime struggling with obesity…
I’m a big Rush fan and I’ve just appreciated the fact that they throw in so many references to the band, even if they’re a bit derisive. Not all of them are, anyway (e.g. “Rush albums, woohoo!” from San Francisco International.)
I’m occasionally bothered by MST3K’s attitude to some of the short films they riffed. I can laugh, but still wince a little, when they rip into Why Study Industrial Arts? Sure, the execution of the short is a bit…off, at times, but the SoL boys give the impression that they scorn the very idea of learning a trade skill in high school. (And Tom Servo recorded a little introduction which makes the scorn even more obvious; you can find it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUPXVtFcl5U) Hired!, too, is a film they seem to have misapprehended somewhat, thinking that it was about selling when it was really about management. The overall message of the short is actually pretty good: don’t throw a new employee into the soup without any training and then blame him for not doing his job well when he struggles with the new job.
At least one person on the writing staff seemed to really hate Lucille Ball. Can’t relate, myself, but the jokes at her expense were still funny.
Speaking as someone who is quite heavy himself, I’ve never had a problem when the Brains make fat jokes, because it’s comedy. They also make fun of the super fit, super skinny… everyone gets a shot. Final Justice is one of my favorite episodes (sorry Sampo) and I wouldn’t have them change a single riff.
It’s comedy, it’s not one-sided and not to be taken seriously, unlike certain media outlets that proliferate a truly horrible body image standard.
I guess the one that bothers me, having worked in the medical field, is making fun of an actor because of something physical that he obviously has no control over. The most obvious one that comes to mind is Robert Z’Dar (the Angel of Death) in “Soultaker.” I don’t know for sure but he appears to have the hormonal disorder acromegaly, which I don’t find funny. Fortunately he’s been able to turn his looks into an advantage in all the “bad guy” roles he’s landed, and I’ve read he’s charming, personable, and a great friend.
OK, off my soapbox.
Why the redhead hate? There being comparatively few redheads in the films to begin with, I appreciate that “clown hair”/pale jokes are obvious and easy choices for those characters. However, the “redheads need to stop breeding” comment at the end of Squirm seemed needlessly vitriolic to me.
“The Horror of Party Beach.” They make all kinds of fun of the band playing on the beach. I forget their name, but I liked them! I thought the music was great!
Gotta be a parrot here- I too dig the Counting Crows and especially Jim Varney as Ernest. I really like those movies (Ernest Goes To Jail). I would say that they go after wrestling, but they never really slag on it, so they are still cool with me.
There was no character named Krankor, but they ALWAYS called him Krankor. It’s The Phantom or The Phantom of Krankor. NOT KRANKOR!!!!
9 times out of 10 I actually love when they make fun of something I love, because deep down, unless it’s something a member of their crew actively *loathed* (i.e. Gallagher), there’s probably a good chance that they have some affection for it as well. We tend to make fun of the things we love (just ask my wife… ba-dum!).
I kind of feel that way when they make fun of most of the musical artists like Counting Crows and such. I LOVE CC. I would not be surprised to learn one of the Brains is actually a fan. And I’d bet money at LEAST one of them is a big fan of Rush, Yes, Styx and the like (my money is on Kevin).
They make fun of TekWars, which is understandable because the writing in the series was (or at least started out) very formulaic and amateurish, but as a Sci-Fi fan, it had aspects and a vision of the future I found interesting.
The Isaac Asimov Doomsday Device skit is one of my all-time faves. I’m not certain their feelings on Camus when Crow throws Camus in Joel’s face, but I love the guy.
Also, this didn’t actually occur IN Mst3k (to my knowledge), but one of the Brains (slips my mind who), really talked junk about the original 1960 13 Ghosts, and I actually really like that as a classic horror film. I wouldn’t lump it with MST Turkeys at all.
I’ve rolled my eyes every now and then. But it’s darn rare. Singers and bands are the main ones. Include me with those who like YES. Roundabout is a fav of all time. Also, they put down The Eagles. THE EAGLES!
But it’s so rare… usually I’m right with them having a gooodie time!
@33. Thus you show your lack of understanding of The Phantom’s rule. His power is known throughout the plant of Krankor. It is ruled by no other. In essence, The Phantom IS Krankor and so it is correct to call him Krankor.
—–
Now, I like Rush, but I wouldn’t stop the riffs about the band. My favorite is from Final Sacrifice, when Crow says, “They’ve stumbled upon Geddy Lee’s birthplace.”
I also like Jim Varney and Willow.
I do agree that the riffs on “Why Study Industrial Arts?” were unkind. There’s nothing wrong with learning how to build and fix things. Not everyone could spend their lives as a lawyer, doctor or building tactical nuclear weapons for the Cold War era USA.
I’ve been a Jackson Browne fan since 1972. Deserved or not, I always winced when they ripped him. I also kept watching. By the 90’s they may have been the only ones still talking about him.
Oh man, yeah. Dissing the Eagles is baffling to me.
@27. If you ever see footage of Lucille Ball from the 1970s, you’ll see where the Brains are coming from. She ought to be used in an anti-smoking campaign targeting young women and girls.
@34, glad I’m not the only one who thinks the 1960 “13 Ghosts” is a classic. Scared the you-know-what out of me when I was a kid and now I find it a hilarious spoof of haunted house movies.
I too have never understood the hate for Styx. They’re not the best band, no, but they were the ones that got me into classic rock and are really not that bad.
MST was the last show since SCTV to skewer the idiotic pop culture ‘icons’ with absolute relish.The untouchables were touched,and flew in the face of political correctness and fawning respect that these fly by nights got in the main stream media.
If we are allowed to include Rifftrax, I definitely disagree with the repeated assertions in Harry Potter: Prisoner of Azkaban that J. K. Rowling stole a bunch of ideas from Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, and Dungeons & Dragons and simply changed the names slightly. She used some standard themes from fantasy and high school books, but nothing that was unique to any other series. Hippogriffs have been in plenty of fantasy novels and games and are spelled exactly the same. I can’t think of anything in the Harry Potter series that was lifted from Lord of the Rings other than the usual themes that are in pretty much every fantasy novel. J. K. Rowling has gone on the record that she really disliked Chronicles of Narnia and the way C. S. Lewis portrayed growing up as an unavoidable loss of innocence. The whole theme struck me as odd, especially because I agree with most of the other problems with the series that Rifftrax dug into.
Can’t recall the episode, but they majorly dis the British for bringing us Benny Hill. I agree it’s some really stupid humor, but I liked it. THANKS, BRITAIN!
Toshiro Mifune: His last name is NOT pronounced ‘Mi-foon’. It’s ‘Mi-fu-ne’.
In season nine, during the British movies, there were always riffs about the small British cars and calling them, “A British sport-ute.” Okay, so Britain had the Aston Mini, but it’s the country of the RANGE ROVER! It’s like the grandfather of sport utility vehicles! It was far from being a small automobile.
Sure, it’s all in good fun till someone touches a nerve. What touches mine is when these guys imply that a woman in the movie, who is, uh, big-boned–or perhaps simply not conventionally beautiful–is also masculine. (They are extremely mean about the dancer in “Incredibly Strange Creatures” for example.) I have noticed that back in Joel’s day, this never seemed to happen–I accuse YOU, Mike! :D (Just kidding, still like ya Mike.)
There are many 1950s era sci-fi movies they have riffed (“I Was a Teenage Werewolf”; “The Mole People”; “Earth Vs. The Spider”; “The Amazing Colossal Man” etc.) that I loved when I was a kid, and if I were a deeply nostalgic person I would probably take offense to the Brains choosing those movies in the fitst place, but for me I love the combination of childhood memories and riffing.
One thing I do sometimes take with a large grain of salt are the slams on people, and their culture, who happen to live in the southern part of the United States. Not all those people are alcoholic, inbred, toothless, and racist. And “country” music (which, these days, has absorbed almost as many styles and instrumentation as rock ‘n’ rol over the years), does not totally and irrevocably rule the airwaves. Speaking of music, whoever said their coolness factor is nil because they pull out Jethro Tull albums- don’t put yourself down like that! Be loud and proud about the music you love! “Stand Up” and “Benefit” are two of the best progressive rock albums ever, “Aqualung” has many songs that were great additions to AOR radio (now called “classic” rock), and “Thick as a Brick” is good zany fun (although I will agree that Jethro Tull winning the “Heavy Metal” category over bands like Metallica in 19(?) was a travesty).
Anyway, enough from me. Good topic!
I think there times, especially in the later seasons, when they went for the throat a bit too much when it came to someone’s appearance. In their defense, they were peppering jokes far faster than in the Joel years and you can only do so much cultural reference humor before there’s nothing left to say.
I’ve never liked it much when they’ve went after good actors in bad movies like Donald Pleasance, but then again I have a real soft spot for good character actors.
I was a little uncomfortable with the Japan bashing, but after reading about just a few of Japan’s atrocities in WW2 and it’s continuous, albeit laughable attempts to deny those atrocities and portray themselves as victims, I became much more comfortable with the bashing very quickly.
I kinda winced at the needlessly nasty slam at Kathy Griffin in Rifftrax’s NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD (“This is like being trapped in an elevator with Kathy Griffin.” [Man starts slapping hysterical woman] “And this is how I’d react if I got stuck in an elevator with Kathy Griffin…”). Still, it’s hardly a shock, and Kathy can take it… Especially since it’s unlikely she’s ever seen anyone from MST3K’s work… ( :mean: )
Also can’t help wondering about the slam at AMERICA’S FUNNIEST HOME VIDEOS, given the fact Josh Weinstein and later Trace Beaulieu ended up working there. In Josh’s case, I hope it wasn’t aimed at him…)