I’m kind of new to all of this but I’ve been keeping my own episode journal and I was just putting down my thoughts for Ep. 314 — Mighty Jack (yeah, I’m behind on my journal) when I found myself commenting that it was a good thing I had seen the KTMA version of this one since that is less cut and the plot is (marginally) followable.
This got me to thinking… “Is it important to be able to follow the plot of a movie to enjoy the riffing overall?”
Sure, individual riffs can kind of stand on their own but when an episode is taken as a whole do people enjoy the finished product more when they also understand what was going on in the film?
I can enjoy episodes I can’t follow — Mighty Jack and Castle of Fu Manchu are good examples. You just sort of need to be able to live in the moment and let the movie FLOW over you, as somebody says in “The Big Chill.” But can those be considered truly classic episodes, or do you need to be drawn in to the movie enough to be following the plot, for the episode to be a true classic?
What do you, the viewer, think?
(By the way, I love the idea of an episode journal.)
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For me, I guess it doesn’t really matter if I can follow the movie. I’m there for the riffing, and the laughs that ensue. If the plot works, great. If not, I’ll let J/M&tB take the hit.
Ask me this question about non-MiSTed movies, though, you’ll get a different answer… :-)
Great topic, especially for those of use who aren’t just MST3K fans, but “bad” movie fans. Some movies are just to incomprehensible to follow (“Monster A Go-Go”). But others are just too charming to not pay attention to (“Cave Dwellers”, “Pod People”). The true classics for me are the ones where the riffing doesn’t get in the way, but the ones where the crew “let the movie FLOW over them”. This goes for the shorts also. Sure, having a date with your family is a boring subject, but taking time to understand the time period in which the short was made and understanding what the short is trying to accomplish makes the riffing that much better. Imagine how boring “Mr. B Natural” would be if you didn’t care that Buzz wanted to learn music in hopes of being the big man on campus and getting the girl.
This being said, I’ve seen many iRiffers over on Rifftrax “bully” their target so that you feel like you’re watching an MMA fight where one guy is in a wheelchair. I think riffing is the most fun when you’re laughing WITH the target, not so much AT it.
Hmm. Interesting question-I can definitely say that episodes like Batwoman and Red Zone Cuba, which were confusing as hell the first time through, were definitely funnier once I could figure out the inanity of the plot. I think episodes that don’t strain the brain too much in the “What the Sam Scratch is going on????” category tend to be more enjoyable, unless the enjoyment comes from the film being a confusing train wreck. One of my all-time favorite episodes is The Day The Earth Froze, which is pretty straightforward in terms of plot. On the other hand, I will admit to laughting like a loon over Gamera Vs. Guiron, mostly because of the incredibly bad dubbing and lines of dialogue that don’t make any sense. So either or, really.
I can get into the incomprehensible movies, but I definitely get more enjoyment if I can follow along. It just adds another dimension to the fun.
At first I was thinking that it didn’t really matter to me, but then you mentioned Mighty Jack and Castle of Fu Manchu. Those have always been two of my least favorite episodes. I like the riffing and the host segments so I guess it must be the movie itself that drags it down for me. I’ve always sort of thought that was the issue, but this discussion thread made me think about it a little more. It’s good to over analyze our movie viewing tendencies. Right?
I can most certainly “let art flow” and enjoy the riffed experience without understanding what the heck is going on in the movie itself. Sometimes, in fact, I think that makes for a stronger MST episode, particularly when the riffers play off an incomprehensible plot. Red Zone Cuba, Future War, Wild Wild World of Batwoman, Monster-a-Go-Go all give the Brains a chance to point out the “wha?” moments & make them funny.
On the other hand, if the movie is too engrossing in & of itself, I think it’s harder to get involved in the riffing. For me, that’s true of Girl in Lovers Lane & Moon Zero Two (though the riffing is fine, I tend to tune it out because I’m watching the movie itself).
And Gizmonic Temp: “I think riffing is the most fun when you’re laughing WITH the target, not so much AT it.” YES! That’s why MST has stood up so well over the years.
I was watching some of the KTMA eps recently – had never bothered with most of them before. Now, I’ve never had a problem sussing out the plot precis of any movie they’ve shown, even when it’s inane in the extreme, or chockablock with holes; but this Humanoid Woman flick…in all honesty I couldn’t figure out who the girl was, what her powers were, where she was from, how they got to the planet, who the dwarf guy was, why her father gave her these powers…and I’m a bit more on the ball now compliments of some of the posters here who commented when it was discussed here. It seems to have been a baffling show for many, to say the least; gritty SF with environmental message delivered with all the clarity of Eraserhead.
Whereas Mighty Jack, to cite one example, is just goofy. Most of these shows were; good guys battle bad guys, whether they’re sidehacking, skydiving, delivering a sampo, et al.
I’ll admit it, I have to know what’s going on. Sometimes, as in Monster a Go Go, that’s pretty hard to do, but I try anyway.
the first time I watch an episode, I follow the movie. The second viewing I pay attention to the riffs. The third viewing is usually the best, I can experience everything easily.
I have to watch a new episode at least twice: Once to more-closely follow the movie and the second+ to better understand the riffs and other subtle jokes/references. Though to this day I still catch new ones in even the most favorite episodes. One example is a shared riff between the Rifftrax House on Haunted Hill live show and TISCWSLABMUZ.
Only Monster a Go-Go was ever confusing to me, and I got along fine watching it.
Maybe if some of the episodes I didn’t like (Robot Monster, Ring of Terror, The Wild World of Batwoman, Hamlet) were confusing to me I might actually enjoy them.
I can never follow the plot to “The Skydivers”…. I never could understand what the hell is going on in the movie, but the riffing is just priceless. Can definetly enjoy the Mst3k version. :P
@8 – Even something like Monster-a-Go-Go will have a THIN plot and actual characters, which at least gives something to riff on, but if the guys are lost too, the riffing’s just moment to moment and looking at the clock.
If we didn’t have at least some contextual inkling of who the balding guy wandering around the woods was, it would be pure static, but trying to put it into the context of an upcoming monster attack of Pure Terror!, it’s funnier to heckle the filmmaker’s idea.
Fu Manchu, OTOH, is a good example of how, if you can’t keep up, you just danged well don’t care after a while. Which isn’t a good thing. (Since you give up following the riffing, as well.)
I NEVER worry about following the plot. I just enjoy the riffing and go along for the ride. I have to admit I like the really incomprehensible ones like Monster-A-Go-Go, The Creeping Terror, and Castle of Fu Manchu. It just makes it that much funnier for me.
I think my expectations are the only thing that can get in the way of my enjoyment of an incomprehensibly plotted movie. If I expect nothing, I can enjoy it for its ridiculousness, riffed or not. For example, just about any Ed Wood movie is hilarious even without the MST3K treatment, especially if you’ve seen the film actually called “Ed Wood” starring Johnny Depp. He just did not care if things made sense; it was the process he enjoyed.
That being said, I do think movies that make no sense are best enjoyed with riffing, and to answer the question, I absolutely think an episode can be a classic even if you can’t follow the original plot.
When I first discovered MST3K on Comedy Channel, I could come in half-way or at any point in the movie and still enjoy what Joel and the bots and the Mads were doing. That’s actually how I got hooked on MST3K. I’d get home from work after midnight and come in on a midnight to 02:00 E.S.T. showing, so I never saw the beginings. Only in recent years have I rewatched episodes from beginning to end. So, no, don’t need to follow the plot.
That being said, there are times when I find myself straining to do so. Those, I believe are times when the riffs are not popping.
Today I watched “The Dead Talk Back” from season 6. One doesn’t need to follow that plot to catch the riffs.
Mighty Jack, Castle of Fu Manchu, Red Zone Cuba, Monster-a-Go-Go… I pretty much avoid the muddled movies like the plague.
My favorite episodes are movies that I would enjoy even without the riffing. For that, they almost certainly need a vaguely comprehensible plot.
I definitely need to understand the film. And that comes from both directions. The film itself needs to make some sort of sense within its own framework, otherwise all the jokes in the world can’t hold me and I’m just patiently waiting for the next host segment (or not, I’ve got a skip forward button right here).
But its also important that the riffing not become the whole point of watching, otherwise its just a comedy routine and not a true experience of *building* on something that the best episodes are.
It helps. Because I’m sort of “additionally riffing” the movie in my head when I watch it, and if there’s too much cut or if BBI edited it strictly for their purposes, it feels a bit like a cheat.
no
I am one of those people who has to be able to follow the plot. And even though they’re all terrible, most of these movies do, in fact, have a plot. I think the only reason I like the Coleman Francis Trilogy is that the movies are short enough that you can ignore the plotlessness. But I can’t get through Fu Manchu, City Limits, or any of the sword-and-sandal movies without falling asleep. The plots are just too meandering.
To me, the movie is the drummer of the riffing combo. If the drummer is really bad, it throws the rest of the group off, and only through supreme effort by the riffers will anything good come of it. On the other hand, if the drummer is too good, it’ll overpower the rest of the group. So what’s needed is a Ringo Starr of movies, if you will — too good to fire, but not good enough to show up the rest of the group.
Oops. I seem to have screwed something up there. I should really try that preview button sometime.Sampo, Erhardt, could you just delete that? It’s supposed to read thusly:
@#22: That is a very clever ananlogy, Steve. It goes both ways. A difficult-to-follow movie may adversely affect the riffing, but if the movie’s fairly interesting, you may find yourself paying less attention to the riffs. For example, I just watched experiment 401,
Marooned” Space Travelers,” a couple days ago – as I’m sure some of you did as well and while it starts out slow with all that dull NASA stuff, I must admit that the movie can be pretty gripping at times. (And then it gets kinda silly.) Is that why it’s not a particularly popular episode? Because you are following along closely?Anyway, I personally don’t think any episodes suffer from movies that are difficult to follow, but I’ve observed that the missus often gets too wrapped up trying to follow the plot and misses some zingers.
But chew on this: Manos is unarguably one of the most popular experiments, and certainly the most famous episode of the show, and can anyone really explain what the hell’s going on in that movie?
I think there’s a correlation but not an exact ones. The extreme case is The Starfighters, which comes pretty close to being just a random collection of disconnected footage. You can’t get any harder to follow than that. Still the MST3K episode based around it is actually reasonably entertaining; I’ve watched it more than once, anyway. Although another of the show’s most meandering, stuff-just-happens movies was Boggy Creek II and that made for a dismal episode; arguably, though, that was more because the whole show was running out of steam by that point.
I happen to like both the Mighty Jack and the Castle of Fu Manchu episodes and I don’t think that the source material is, in either case, all that difficult to follow. Mighty Jack in typical Sandy Frank fashion is actually reasonably coherent for a while and only towards the end does it fall apart into a welter of scenes obviously edited together in a confused hurry. As for Castle of Fu Manchu there’s so little to the plot that it’s not difficult to follow, just boring because of all the padding and endless shots of rooms and corridors: evil guy wants to freeze the ocean and kidnaps and betrays as many people as he needs to do it, while Nayland-Smith tracks him down with some very weakly-written detective work. It’s very thin beer but it’s all actually pretty linear.
What I really dislike in MST3K, what I think can really sink an episode, aren’t the movies that are confusing or amorphous, it’s the movies that maybe are straightforward but make you feel dirty to watch, like The Leech Woman or Sidehackers.
I used to actually rewind the episodes when I realized that I didn’t know what the heck was going on. I then realized it really did matter too much at all in MST terms. So now I just go with it and enjoy the riffing. And lets face it, “Mighty Jack” will never make sense, no matter how many times you watch it.
I generally don’t have trouble following the plots of these things (even “Manos”–but it’s best with that one if you don’t ask too many questions), since part of what makes them bad is that they often follow very tired, formulaic plot lines. In the Creature Features or Alien Attack films, for example, you get a standard plot–creatures/aliens emerge, terror and mayhem ensue, and (usually) male lead figures out a way to destroy them. There–there’s 90% of Bert Gordon and Roger Corman films in a nutshell.
Some of the mad scientist films are OK if you don’t question the science too closely (or at all)–The Unearthly is a good example of this. The medical stuff makes no sense, but the film works if you think (in a Tor Johnson voice): “Guy trapped in house–meet pretty girl–find mad scientist experiments–try to leave–Tor try to stop–Tor fail.”
The ones I have most trouble with are the ones that the Brains had trouble with themselves–how many times in “City Limits” does Tom complain that he has no idea what’s going on? The Coleman Francis films are equally opaque. “Starfighters” wasn’t obscure–it’s just that nothing really happens. But the riffing alone made the experience worth watching. You get the idea. I think what sinks most of these films is not lack of plot, but lack of character–in “City Limits,” for example, virtually every biker is interchangeable with every other biker, and Rae Dawn Chong and Kim Cattrall are memorable because…well, they’re pretty much the only women in the whole thing. And even, if they had resembled each other physically, they would have been hard to distinguish, too. Even stereotypes are better than this, because at least a stereotypical characters have something familiar to communicate to the audience.
Question–do you make allowances for those films, like Master Ninja I & II, that were discrete TV episodes stitched together, and that were never meant to be seen as features? I know I do–but I wonder what someone seeing these cold would think. I remember finding Cosmic Princess fairly easy to follow (and even interesting for a KTMA episode), because I used to watch “Space:1999” when it was on, and so I knew the general premise and remembered most of the characters (although that show suffered from bland, interchangeable characters–in space, no one can hear you be interesting).
So–plots are usually pretty straightforward. It’s characters (or lack of them) that frustrate me. And I suspect the Brains often felt the same way.
@ 26,
Actually, it does a bit. In the first half the evil organization known as “Q” kidnaps Harold Atari because they believe he is affiliated somehow with the secret good organization called Mighty Jack. Mighty Jack is sent to rescue Atari. They do. In the second half Q has stolen a scientist’s invention which creates an unmeltable ice. Mighty Jack tries to figure out a way of counteracting the invention AND find out which of two scientists may be secretly working with Q. They do both then blow up Q’s secret base putting an end to Q.
Even “Castle of Fu Manchu” has a plot. It’s stupid and convoluted but it’s a plot… a scientist finds a way of creating ice in even tropical waters. Fu kidnaps the scientist and tests some of the scientist’s invention. Fu then threatens to create icebergs all over the shipping and travel lanes which would cripple commerce and travel (I *think* the movie is supposed to be set in the 1920’s in which case you have to keep in mind that airplane travel wasn’t common and international commerce was primarily handled by boat. In which case icebergs all over the shipping lanes would be a real threat). Fu’s problem is that the scientist is being uncooperative AND the guy has a bad heart so Fu can’t just torture him to get the information.
Fu decides to make his headquarters in Turkey (why? I dunno, something about the Bospherous) but Fu has style so he wants the best place around — the palatial estate of a corrupt local official. Fu doesn’t want to take the fall for it, though, so he suckers a Turkish opium kingpin into helping him attack the estate by saying the corrupt official has a huge stockpile of opium and they’ll split it and sell it on the black market for a fortune. Then, once Fu has the palace he double crosses the Turkish drug gang members and slaughters them.. all except the kingpin’s daughter — whom he holds as leverage.
Meanwhile, Fu captures the world’s greatest heart surgeon and his nurse and then forces them to perform a heart transplant on the scientist so that Fu can then wring the secret of the ice creating chemical out of him. Fu destroys a dam to prove to the surgeon and his nurse that he’ll go to any lengths to get what he wants.
Still more meanwhile, Nayland Smith follows a bunch of slender clues and eventually teams up with the Turkish Kingpin to attack Fu’s lair. They do so and in the process the kingpin is killed. His daughter tries to go back for the body and dies but Nayland, the scientist, the surgeon and his nurse all escape… as does Fu and his daughter to menace the world another day! Bwahahahahahaha….
So…. yeah. I need plot.
In thinking about it I think it’s partly because it helps cement both movie and riff in my head. If I can’t explain the movie to myself then I seem to have a hard time getting the riffs to stick as well.
I think the sheer goofiness of what’s on screen in Manos overcomes the confusion. Yeah, the plot’s a mess and scenes don’t follow each other in any sensible fashion (e.g. Torgo gets “killed, killed, killed!!” but then pops up in a later scene very much alive) but you’ve got the sheer, fascinating wackiness of Torgo’s twitching and leering, the Master’s ludicrous appearance and pompous declamations, and the wives’ bitching and tussling with each other. There’s also long stretches of utter tedium but the riffing does a pretty good job of papering it over (e.g. Tom’s ditzy-housewife monologue that gets us through the final, interminable driving scene.)
Imagine if Manos were exactly the same but done in the style of, say, The Mole People. It’d look and sound more professional, the acting would be better, but there’s no way it’d be even a tenth as entertaining and people would probably be saying that it made for a dull MST3K episode.
I don’t like it when a movie’s edited so poorly it’s impossible to follow; dunno if that ever happened with the Best Brains Folks. Also find it annoying when the Best Brains people get confused with the plot and pass their confusion on to us via the riffs. To wit: SKYDIVERS. Apparently, the writers were understandably anxious for the movie to be over or at least for it to get going, so they assumed the ‘acid in the parachute’ jump was earlier than it was and made all sorts of jokes anticipating it. Problem is, when it was clear the jokes were built on a faulty premise –The ‘acid in the chute’ jump was later in the film– rather than eliminating the jokes that didn’t make sense, they just ignored it. SKYDIVERS is one of my favorite episodes, but that was irritating.
As far as generally caring about a movie’s plot, I’m okay with incomprehensible, as long as it’s interesting. I can sit through a pretentious, ridiculous ‘art’ movie, but not some idiot droning on and on about some subject, accompanied by the occasional slide.
Thinking this topic over some more, I wonder whether there’s a difference between a movie that was made incomprehensible, and one that was edited by BB. Case in point: Sidehackers. Anyone who knows that ep knows that a key plot point was edited out due to its graphic nature. As a result, the movie is suddenly left with a gaping hole in the plot. Joel tells us what happened, but if you’re not paying attention, you may miss it.
Sometimes after repeated viewings of a confusing episode, my mind just fills in the details.
@ #30….
“Sidehackers.” Ugh. I hate that episode.
Joel and the gang do their best to save it but in the end the whole movie is one big “Women in Refrigerators” moment (with or without the rape scene) and I just can’t swallow that kind of thing any more.
But “Slime People” has a similar problem. We go away for a host break and the Marine and the Sportscaster are still tracking the kidnapped Bonnie down. When we come back from the break Our Heroes have already saved Bonnie… What the heck?!
I personally do not need to follow the episode. In those diluted movies it feels like I am forced to watch garbage just like our hosts, and their sarcasm and outrageous comments turn the experience into something enjoyable (something the films’ producers never considered).
No, I don’t need to be able to follow the movie plot to enjoy the riffing. For me if I try to follow the plot too closely for, say like the clunker MONSTER A-GO-GO, I’ll follow the plot alright… right to SLEEEEP!
Most of the episodes have movies that are easy enough to follow. Even the dull movies make sense without ruining the riffing, but in the end I watch these episodes for the riffing 1st and the movie 2nd.
It took me 5 tries before I stayed awake long enough to watch MONSTER A-GO-GO. This was awhile ago and I don’t remember it very well at all. :-(
@ #32 I’m sure there are more examples. Hey, maybe this can be a discussion for next weekend: Which movie edit makes you scratch your head wondering what happened?
Well, it’s just a thought…
I consider myself quite a B movie afficionado, especially sci-fi from the 50s thru the early 70s, and I think that is what originally drew me into MST. So yeah I prefer the movie to have some semblance of a followable story to it or else my mind sort of wanders. Fu Manchu and Mighty Jack are 2 episodes I avoid at all costs. I know there are some, like Rob Zombie, who find the MST treatment offensive, that to me is utter nonsense. Most of these movies were made to go straight to the drive in so teenagers could have something in the background while they made out, they weren’t intended as works of art. Watching with Joel or Mike and the bots just adds a whole other layer to the already silly plots, fx, acting, whatever. It’s like watching with some pals, but there needs to be some sort of story, at least for me.
Having said that, I love Manos so it doesn’t need to be a GOOD story.
No. I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is letting the plot of the movie cloud the riffing experience. For me, riffing is something I enjoy right away. Plot comprehension develops over time…or not.
Personally, I like when the movie is followable. It doesn’t have to be to be enjoyed, but when they make riffs on a current situation, it’s nice to be able to know what’s going on to get it easily. Also, in some movies and shorts the audio is so bad that it’s hard to pick up on riffs making fun of the dialog. Also, it seems when i’m trying to recruit a new fan, it’s easier with a movie that’s not too terrible. Something like Time Chasers or Parts: The Clonus Horror, where the movie is (somewhat) watchable but the riffs just make it great. And I too have a episode journal of sorts. Glad to know i’m not alone in that.
Canucklehead:
Good question–but you’ll have to concede that “Sidehackers” is a special case, and that I would bet that the Brains are better at editing than that one unfortunate example. Maybe in all cases, if there is a confusing cut, there was some very good reason for it.
I don’t want to say too much about “Space Travelers” (right now, anyway), but apart from “Hamlet” it was the longest movie they’d ever done–134 mins. in its original release as “Marooned” (“Prince of Space” is third longest, at 121 mins., for those who care about such things). I haven’t been able to find out if “Space Travelers” was edited, but how much did the MST editing compromise one’s ability to follow the film–for example, does the appearance of the Cosmonaut seemingly out of the blue seem like a weird intrusion? Maybe we should save this for a later date…
HA! There’s plenty of movies now where I can’t follow the plot, but I enjoy them anyway, or try to. Mighty Jack’s got nothing on some films of today.
Blast Hardcheese:
Oh, I absolutely agree that Sidehackers is a special case. But as Stressfactor (#32) pointed out, The Slime People has a moment like that where something happens in the movie (during the host segment) that we’re not privy to. And I know that there are movies where there is no interruption during the host segment (we end and begin as close to the same moment as possible), as well as those that start and end on completely different scenes. So it might be worth exploring.
But, as you said, perhaps we should save this for a later date…
As usual with “MST3K” there is no right or wrong answer but a combination of factors and each viewer’s individual flavor/bias. I personally prefer movies that flow easy (point A to point B to end of first act; same for middle and concluding acts) but that’s a way to describe “Hobgoblins” or “Hamlet,” experiments that just freaking hurt as heck to even talk/think about. Incomprehensible or hard-to-follow narratives (whether by bad writing or technical difficulties) like those in “Wild World of Batwoman” are an automatic turn-off for me, yet experiments like “Red Zone Cuba” and “Overdrawn at the Memory Bank” are some of my favorites.
I just watched “I Accuse My Parents” and it achieves an almost perfect harmony of easy-to-follow movie narrative, riffing quota, movie-centered host segments and pace. You can tell the Brains were not only following the movie’s plot but were almost too enthralled by it, especially with the ‘what’s floating inside Jimmy’s head’ segment. But this is an exception and not the rule for the show, plus (a) Joel obviously was into this experiment more than others (he’s mentioned this as his favorite “MST3K” episode) and (b) the Brains were at the peak of their writing/performing powers. I’m sure there are other movies that were easy to follow that, because of the season they came in, were either not properly riffed (KTMA #20, “The Last Chase”) or riffed with a sense of humor not in tune with the movie’s simplicity (#607, “Bloodlust”… basically a Scooby-Doo cartoon in human form, yet Mike and the bots seem bored with it and the riffing/host segments disappoint). And yet Sampo’s Law means that some of the experiments I’m labeling as failures or triumphs will not be liked or disliked by fellow MiSTies of all sizes, shapes and colors.
It’s rare when a perfect storm of easy-to-follow movie and kick-ass riffing/host segments like “I Accuse My Parents” comes and the Brains are ready to tackle it. When it does come and they nail the tone though, man it’s just a thing of beauty. :inlove:
I realize there is a plot to most of these movies. And I’m almost sure that the filmmakers knew they had to have a plot…maybe not Coleman Francis. But many of the riffs revolve around whether the filmmakers succeeded in their intent: to advance to the next plot point, to build tension, to have us care about the characters, that the set or prop is believable, or that the dialogue fits, as opposed to sounding like something stiff or flimsy.
I.E., I must follow the basic plot to get some of the rapid-fire riffs. I appreciate that they comment on screenplays they hate, like when the only nice character is killed in “Girl in Lovers Lane;” same thing happened to Megaweapon in “Warrior of the Lost World.” Or when when inexplicably, NO ONE of the horrible Hobgoblins characters were killed. in violent bloody ways.
That said, to make it through any of these MST films, you should have the skill to soldier on, act as if they’ve made their point when clearly they haven’t, and assume the plot is moving just to get to the end with whatever payoffs and riffs are awaiting the big finale. Then curse them for their efforts if necessary and appropriate.
Do You Need to Be Able to Follow the Movie?
It certainly helps with some of the jokes since a certain number of them pertain to what is going on in the movie’s story, but I don’t think it is essential overall. For films I hadn’t seen before seeing them on MST3K it was sometimes a hindrance to enjoying the episode the first time watching it since I’d pay attention to the movie on the first viewing more than the jokes. If the movie was particularly bad or tough to watch (e.g., Sidehackers) me and my wife would only discover how funny it was on a repeat viewing after we could kind of ignore the film since we already knew the story and could then devote full focus on the jokes. Painful as it can be for some episodes I’d recommend getting to know the movie if possible to get the full impact of the most jokes possible, but it’s not required to get a fair amount of enjoyment out of the majority of a given episode.
It never really mattered to me if the films made sense watching as a kid and still doesn’t today. In fact, the talk on here from Sampo and others always trying to figure the movies out struck me as odd. I guess I’m in the “the worse the movie the better the riffing” camp. If I want to watch a movie with stuff like a cohesive plot and competent craftsmanship i won’t watch Mst3k.
I always thought a good way to disguise the more obvious edits would have been to simply imply that the movie is still playing in the theater during the host segments.
#45: “In fact, the talk on here from Sampo and others always trying to figure the movies out struck me as odd.”
Really? Part of the fun of watching bad movies, whether on MST3K or somewhere is, is speculating about just what the hell they thought they were trying to accomplish.
A good interesting movie to follow plus the riffs just adds to the enjoyment. Time Chasers, A Touch of Satan, and Bloodlust are a few movies to me that were good on it’s own. An episode with a confusing plot and dull dialoge can get boring and makes it less watchable. Especially repeat viewings.
In addition to Time Chasers having a good plot to follow,
irrespective of riffing, I’d also disagree with many on
Overdrawn at the Memory Bank. While not without, ah, flaws,
the premise and some executions of same are quite interesting.
Although I recognize the AADS (Anteater anti-defamation Society)
disagrees.
Maybe not trying to figure the movies out is what struck me as odd as people saying they couldn’t enjoy the episode because they had no idea what was going on and spent the whole time trying to figure out the plot.